^ Yeah I cant see it either.
Fixedsc4mayor wrote:^ Yeah I cant see it either.
I fixed it.Trololzilla wrote:^ I think that last picture is broken somehow.
1. 1900 Grand - Crossroads KC (1 Block from KC Streetcar)
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2. 20th and Walnut - Crossroads KC (1 Block from KC Streetcar)
Massive new development by Oddo. This project will almost entirely wrap around the above parking garage.
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2. 20th and Walnut - Crossroads KC (1 Block from KC Streetcar)
Massive new development by Oddo. This project will almost entirely wrap around the above parking garage.
Always reassuring to see that STL doesn't have a monopoly on hideous garages.
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Yeah, that 1900 Grand is absolutely heinous.
Also, that garage is built to the street corner with first floor retail, so I don't know how it is going to be entirely wrapped by anything.
Also, that garage is built to the street corner with first floor retail, so I don't know how it is going to be entirely wrapped by anything.
The backside will be an apartment buildingKansasCitian wrote:Yeah, that 1900 Grand is absolutely heinous.
Also, that garage is built to the street corner with first floor retail, so I don't know how it is going to be entirely wrapped by anything.
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^I wonder if the apartments are on the side with the better views.
1. 1532 Grand - Crossroads KC (1 block from KC Streetcar)
Plans were filled with the City today to add 4 floors of residential (20 units) above an existing structure.
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Plans were filled with the City today to add 4 floors of residential (20 units) above an existing structure.
^I wonder what the cost of that will be. There are plenty of buildings in Downtown St. Louis, including one I know of, that would benefit from something like this. Is the market really that strong in KC where they can plop a building on top of the other and fetch superior rents? This type of stuff isn't cheap.
I do think this is a cool project though.
I do think this is a cool project though.
High end new construction has past $4 SF/Month with waitlists (deposit required)chriss752 wrote:^I wonder what the cost of that will be. There are plenty of buildings in Downtown St. Louis, including one I know of, that would benefit from something like this. Is the market really that strong in KC where they can plop a building on top of the other and fetch superior rents? This type of stuff isn't cheap.
I do think this is a cool project though.
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I'm not sure how sustainable construction like this is when Kansas City's job growth isn't even matching St. Louis'.
I think everything KC has in the pipeline is great and going to be successful. But I do wonder how much more they can reasonably expect before somebody loses a lot of money.
I think everything KC has in the pipeline is great and going to be successful. But I do wonder how much more they can reasonably expect before somebody loses a lot of money.
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If the building was intended for (or originally had) more floors then maybe it wouldn't be so absurdly bad. I'm aware of a fair few buildings in Columbia that had upper stories demolished while the lower stories were retained. You can often kind of see the ghost of the fenestration in the parapet, since the brick will generally be visibly different, and the parapet wall is usually tall enough to hit the bottom of the window line. I assume the same thing happened other places when demo was more bespoke and materials were more consistently saved.chriss752 wrote:^I wonder what the cost of that will be. There are plenty of buildings in Downtown St. Louis, including one I know of, that would benefit from something like this. Is the market really that strong in KC where they can plop a building on top of the other and fetch superior rents? This type of stuff isn't cheap.
I do think this is a cool project though.
Anyway, cool project, but I hope they put some kind of cornice on the new roof level. It needs punctuation; a nice full cadence to say "I'm done." All that said, I like this project a lot.
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KC is doing well with white collar job growth and brain gain and has real net population growth from outside metro.KansasCitian wrote:I'm not sure how sustainable construction like this is when Kansas City's job growth isn't even matching St. Louis'.
I think everything KC has in the pipeline is great and going to be successful. But I do wonder how much more they can reasonably expect before somebody loses a lot of money.
Gotta wonder though if downtown KC can support so many high end units going for $3+ sqft. Cordish apparently believes so as they may start Four Light while Three Light still u/c. The downtown hotel development is on fire too with more coming but it seems to be more about metro inventory shifting into city as dated suburban hotels retire.
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In the past year, St. Louis has beat Kansas City in job growth. I'm just skeptical that all of these buildings can be built without some developers losing their pants in the deal.
^ I don't know how much metropolitan stats like all this really matter in terms of urban development in either city. Most US cities have urban cores that are reviving, even in cities like Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh and Cleveland, all of which continue to shed population overall. St. Louis is a slow growth region, but the Central Corridor and several parts of South St. Louis are growing, booming in some areas, in both job growth and residential population.
There is plenty of demand for these types of projects in these types of urban neighborhoods around the country. I don't think any one thing like job growth or population growth is going to influence it all that much.
What does need to stop in downtown Kansas City is the rampant subsidies given out for these luxury apartment buildings and hotels. VisitKC has said on more than one occasion that the region's hotel market is over-saturated and needs to focus on growing demand before building additional rooms. Developers should be able to make these high end projects stand on their own merits without government help in a neighborhood as stable as downtown KC.
What we don't need is this thread to turn into another statistical pissing match like we had before.
There is plenty of demand for these types of projects in these types of urban neighborhoods around the country. I don't think any one thing like job growth or population growth is going to influence it all that much.
What does need to stop in downtown Kansas City is the rampant subsidies given out for these luxury apartment buildings and hotels. VisitKC has said on more than one occasion that the region's hotel market is over-saturated and needs to focus on growing demand before building additional rooms. Developers should be able to make these high end projects stand on their own merits without government help in a neighborhood as stable as downtown KC.
What we don't need is this thread to turn into another statistical pissing match like we had before.
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Yup, by 0.1% difference in Aug. STL had a nice job spike this summer and hopefully it will mean return to population growth and brain gain, which KC has been doing fairly well with compared to most of Midwest. The good news for both cities is that the central corridors are hopping and the burbs aren't as hot anymore. Jeff City needs to take notice.KansasCitian wrote:In the past year, St. Louis has beat Kansas City in job growth. I'm just skeptical that all of these buildings can be built without some developers losing their pants in the deal.
The demand is still there for downtown KC housing so that isn't a concern, there are signs that spec office space construction could startup and the downtown hotel growth is the one that seems more of a concern but not when looking at metro context. And downtown hotels could be converted to residential if need be.
Agree the subsidies need to end, at least reduce with maybe just lower risk projects that the city can truly benefit from. And with new mayor/council that will probably happen at least some.sc4mayor wrote:^ I don't know how much metropolitan stats like all this really matter in terms of urban development in either city. Most US cities have urban cores that are reviving. St. Louis is a slow growth region overall, but the Central Corridor and several parts of South St. Louis are growing, booming in some areas, in both job growth and residential population.
There is plenty of demand for these types of projects in these types of urban neighborhoods around the country. I don't think any one thing like job growth or population growth is going to influence it all that much.
What does need to stop in downtown Kansas City is the rampant subsidies given out for these luxury apartment buildings and hotels. VisitKC has said on more than one occasion that the region's hotel market is over-saturated and needs to focus on growing demand before building additional rooms. Developers should be able to make these high end projects stand on their own merits without government help in a neighborhood as stable as downtown KC.
What we don't need is this thread to turn into another statistical pissing match like we had before.
The hotel inventory will probably continue to shift from the burbs. Major hotel players probably won't want to invest upgrading aging suburban hotels and rather build new in the city instead. But the city corridor is attracting a lot of new brands too. The metro does have a lot of rooms for a non-touristy city its size, about 35K according to Collison but it will probably stick around that as older hotels in burbs retire. Would expect over time aging hotels downtown to either be upgraded if owners see a good ROI or convert to residential.
^ I work in far southern Olathe and there seem to be new hotels popping up everywhere around here. My old office was up further north in Lenexa and there were new hotels popping up there too, lots of older ones have been renovated as well. There is also a ton of residential and commercial growth out here, much much more than around where I live in Midtown. This is obviously all anecdotal but I don't feel like things are re-centering around the core here, suburban development still seems to be the primary driver of growth in this region. Just last year Olathe and Overland Park both rated as higher draws for Millennials than KCMO did (I can get the Star link, but it's just paywalled lol). Cerner picked the old Bannister Mall site for their new HQ, Burns and Mac continues to build out in South KC along Ward Parkway. This isn't to take away from the success with office space and residential in downtown KC, which has been stellar, but I don't believe its enough to come close to offsetting the growth in the suburbs here.
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I thought you lived on the Plaza (from previous post). Yeah, the burbs will of course continue to gain some new hotels in hotspots like Olathe and airport but aging hotels in burbs are being closed (one in OP is being coveted to I think storage units). The net metro inventory of hotel rooms aren't expect to grow a whole lot, I'd expect it to stay steady.
Polls may not mean much but the desire is now for city core housing or burbs close to city. JoCo was the hotspot in past.
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... -city.html
Polls may not mean much but the desire is now for city core housing or burbs close to city. JoCo was the hotspot in past.
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... -city.html
^ The keyword there was work 
Unless you're referring to my mention of Midtown that is, ever since I worked for the City of KCMO I always (for whatever reason) refer to the city's area plan which is named Midtown/Plaza. But yes, I do live on the Plaza.
Unless you're referring to my mention of Midtown that is, ever since I worked for the City of KCMO I always (for whatever reason) refer to the city's area plan which is named Midtown/Plaza. But yes, I do live on the Plaza.
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Ah you also said you live in Midtown in last post but Plaza in a previous post.
Anyway I didn't mean to imply the burbs will stop growing, they'll still grow but for the first time KC's [url=file:///home/chronos/u-59153dbac59f8778e3ac3ca6780180634211689f/MyFiles/Downloads/2019%20Q2%20Multifamily%20Kansas%20City%20Trends%20Colliers.pdf]central city is among fastest growing with multi-family units[/url], whereas it used to be nearly all JoCo. And good to see N OP filling in more rather than more sprawl.
Anyway I didn't mean to imply the burbs will stop growing, they'll still grow but for the first time KC's [url=file:///home/chronos/u-59153dbac59f8778e3ac3ca6780180634211689f/MyFiles/Downloads/2019%20Q2%20Multifamily%20Kansas%20City%20Trends%20Colliers.pdf]central city is among fastest growing with multi-family units[/url], whereas it used to be nearly all JoCo. And good to see N OP filling in more rather than more sprawl.
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