urbanSTL

bonwich wrote:And if you weren't afraid to walk six blocks through scary downtown, which is a dangerous place at night. (Which is why certain elements don't hesitate to be ripped off for $15 or $30 for stadium-side parking.)

You hit the proverbial nail on the head. There are still plenty of people that don't care about passing Go and collecting $200- they feel they must rush to their cars and Escape From New York- oops- I mean downtown Saint Louis- as soon as possible. I'm not sure those folks have the incentive to change their antiquated perspective toward downtown now that Hrabosky's Tool Shed caters to their demographic and is located conveniently near the stadium.



Whenever I'm alone and meeting friends, or it's just my wife and I, I usually try to park for free down by the courthouse. When my wife and I take our son to games, we usually park at Macy's because it's cheap, the walk is neither too long nor too short for our tastes, and we try to shop the downtown Macy's instead of the suburban locations as often as possible anyway. Now that my son has discovered the candy counter in the SW corner of the main floor, we cannot pass the place without stopping these days.



Now that Mercury is west of the stadium and J. Buck's will be in the area soon, it'll just give me an excuse to take a longer walk!



(Edited to fix misplaced sentence about Macy's- because my laptop mouse has a mind of its own.)

Doug wrote:

I guess it was quite convenient for the toothless and clueless to overpay for the local macrobrew (most people at least wait until they get to the ballpark for that) and hear Smash crucify some worn-out classic rock anthems just hours before REO crucified the National Anthem.

I took the metro for opening day. Yes, Hrabosky's was Hoosier to the max. Drinking horrible AB products, while being surrounded by JeffCo, Warren, and St. Clair Hoosiers was pretty bad. I need to go to Mercury more often. That place is quite nice!



I was at the Tool Shed as a certain lady friend happens to like that place.



12 blocks is really nothing, except to people who are not used to walking. People in my neighborhood won't even walk 3 blocks to Hampton Village.

I really hate these kind of statements. Would you (or anyone else) prefer the stadium be surrounded by martini bars, where the frou frou crowd can go and sip their mocktails while forgetting there's actually a game on? And those mixers I can bet you would be twice the price of a beer at Hrabosky's.



And 314 - congratulations for you wanting to stay downtown after the game for a drink. Not everyone can do that for a number of reasons. Many have small children, who need to go to sleep. Others have work or school commitments. I'm sure more people would like to stay down for a beer or two, but can't for various reasons.



Also, have you seen downtown an hour after the game? It's a ghost town. Sure, there's people in the bars, but on the streets themselves, there's NO ONE AROUND. If I have to walk 5 blocks to my car, and see nary a soul out, I'm going to feel very nervous and very exposed. I understand you think these people are part of the problem. SUre, ok, I'll buy that - but can you blame them?

There's somewhere in between Al's and a martini bar, I'm sure of it.

migueltejada wrote:I really hate these kind of statements. Would you (or anyone else) prefer the stadium be surrounded by martini bars, where the frou frou crowd can go and sip their mocktails while forgetting there's actually a game on? And those mixers I can bet you would be twice the price of a beer at Hrabosky's.

If you were here, I'd take you up on that bet. Since we now know that aluminum A-B longnecks run $9 at Hrabosky's Tool Shed per someone's previous post, I can safely say I have yet to find a local establishment that charges $18 or more for the run-of-the-mill martini or mixed drink. Now, I know that some places like Mandarin sell specialty drinks that cost $50 or more, but that's the exception rather than the rule.



I was talking about the tackiness of one particular establishment- never once did I say that there shouldn't be a mix of eating and drinking establishments near the stadium. Variety is the spice of life. I just think Hrabosky's looks like a dump. That's all.

migueltejada wrote:And 314 - congratulations for you wanting to stay downtown after the game for a drink. Not everyone can do that for a number of reasons. Many have small children, who need to go to sleep. Others have work or school commitments. I'm sure more people would like to stay down for a beer or two, but can't for various reasons.

Another "ready, fire, aim" comment. I have nearly 1,200 posts on this forum, and I have frequently mentioned that I have a three y/o son, so I think I have at least a somewhat faint idea of what it's like to have (a) child(ren) in tow. Like most people here, I work and attend school. Sometimes I have the opportunity to go out before and after a game, and sometimes I walk back to my car (esp. when I take my son) and head back to the South Side.



But that isn't the point. Again, you've missed it. I wasn't criticizing all of the people that leave downtown immediately after a game. I was talking specifically about those whose obsolete and negative perceptions hold them back from even thinking about eating and/or drinking at a nearby establishment before or after a game. Believe me, they're out there. Maybe they haven't spent quality time downtown since Dillard's was open, or even when it was Stix Baer & Fuller. Maybe the Morgan Quitno rubbish scares them. Yet you'll find them quoted in the media and posting on STLtoday.com practically bragging about how they never come downtown. At any rate, those are the people to whom I was referring.

migueltejada wrote:Also, have you seen downtown an hour after the game? It's a ghost town. Sure, there's people in the bars, but on the streets themselves, there's NO ONE AROUND. If I have to walk 5 blocks to my car, and see nary a soul out, I'm going to feel very nervous and very exposed. I understand you think these people are part of the problem. SUre, ok, I'll buy that - but can you blame them?

Like all cities- even some of the best- there are dead times. There are dead zones. And, to throw you a bone, I'll even insert the "we have a long way to go" cliche. However, I'm tired of these antiquated blanket statements about downtown's condition from people that never spend time in it and/or live a world away from STL. I've spent considerable time in downtown in three of the last five weekends, and it's livelier than any time that I can remember in 32 years of living in or near Saint Louis.

I just look at it as one less person we have to worry about while out walking around.

This is a really horrible event, but it's also the first time I've heard of a shooting downtown in a long time. That's not to make an excuse of the event, as it is something that will stick in the minds of many for years, giving them evidence of a crime problem in the downtown area.



I still persist that our homeless problem downtown is the main reason for perceived uneasiness downtown. Nobody likes to be encountered by a crackhead asking for change.

Jeff707 wrote:

Police recovered the man's handgun from a pool of blood next to the body.

Was this sentence really necessary?

And was it necessary to mention that the dog's name is Leonardo Da Vinci? Odd.

Weren't some bouncers shot recently near Union Station? Washington Avenue maybe? Within a few months.

it's also the first time I've heard of a shooting downtown in a long time.

outside of the nightclub at Union Station...I forget the name, but the one where have a nice day cafe used to be

Wow. That shooting: not good. In my mind, I can justify/rationalize it. You know, nobody innocent was hurt, there was no robbery. Just another bad guy off the streets. Also, it sends a message to "suspicious looking people." Right?



But unfortunately, most people aren't going to see it that way. Not, not good. And I will say that the story was very sensational. Irresponsibly so, in my opinion. Can't wait to see this on the "most emailed stories" list tomorrow.

The victim was identified. Of course he's from Swansea...figures



Officials identify police shooting victim

Patrick O'Connell

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

04/04/2007



ST. LOUIS -- The man shot and killed by police Tuesday night has been identified as Damien Conner, 29, of Swansea, according to police.



Police shot Conner after he opened fire on police officers as they attempted to stop him downtown outside the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, authorities said.



Two officers tried to stop Conner and two companions about 7 p.m. near Broadway and Locust Street because they looked suspicious, police said. When officers ordered Conner to stop, he ran, then turned around and fired one shot. Conner then ran north on Broadway before turning around and firing another round at the officers as he ran toward them, police said.



The two unidentified officers returned fire and Conner suffered gunshot wounds to the left and right shoulders, right chest, back and the left side of the forehead, police said.



Neither officer was injured in the exchange. Both have been placed on administrative leave pending an internal investigation.



Link to Story

Not sure how it "figures," but I'm still really bummed about this whole situation.



But J. Buck's will be nice!

steve wrote:Wow. That shooting: not good. In my mind, I can justify/rationalize it. You know, nobody innocent was hurt, there was no robbery. Just another bad guy off the streets. Also, it sends a message to "suspicious looking people." Right?



But unfortunately, most people aren't going to see it that way. Not, not good. And I will say that the story was very sensational. Irresponsibly so, in my opinion. Can't wait to see this on the "most emailed stories" list tomorrow.

That's precisely what I was thinking. The shooting was unfortunate, but in the end, the police did what they had to do. And I credit them with being more aggressive in downtown about pursuing quality of life issues. A television report said police wanted to question the man and his accomplices about car break-ins in the area, although the P-D report made no mention of that. Either way, I don't think the police had a choice.



OTOH, most people are going to focus on the fact that this occured downtown, even though downtown consistently ranks among the city's safest neighborhoods. I suppose the people that will be steering clear of downtown based on this isolated incident are also avoiding the St. Louis Galleria and St. Clair Square, based on similar recent incidents in those places? I'm not saying that people shouldn't be concerned or increasingly vigilant, but you know this will give the anti-city people even more ammo, as if they needed more anyway. Hopefully they'll come up for air once in awhile.



Nowhere is truly safe anymore. You have to be vigilant wherever you go in this society. Not fearful, just vigilant.



For those that want to continue kvetching about downtown, why not try the STLtoday.com forums?



BTW, I'm looking forward to that new J. Buck's. I hope it's safer than the one in Fairview Heights inside St. Clair Square.



edited once for context and twice for spelling errors...oops!

brickandmortar wrote:The victim was identified. Of course he's from Swansea.

And we were worried that downtown wouldn't be able to attract people from the suburbs.

DeBaliviere wrote:

brickandmortar wrote:The victim was identified. Of course he's from Swansea.

And we were worried that downtown wouldn't be able to attract people from the suburbs.

I'm so tired of these suburbanites riding the MetroLink into the city to commit crimes!

In other news, downtown Atlanta is poised to become a ghost town due to the shooting yesterday adjacent to CNN headquarters.



{sarcasm filters not employed}

let's make jokes about people dying. Good times.

ChrisInDownTown wrote:let's make jokes about people dying. Good times.

I don't have much sympathy for scum bags who shoot at cops.

I must have read a different story then about the CNN shooting, because I thought one fo the victims was the gunmans girlfriend. Please let me know which one you are referring to.

^

I was just referring to the St. Louis incident.