No it's not unsafe. Just a few incidents that have been highly publicized make it seem that way. The majority of the issues resolve around the clubs which hopefully changes. The recent mugging was an isolated incident. The murder from a bunch of idiots on Sugar Lounge.goat314 wrote:Wow! Downtown must be viewed as a place of easy lickings for criminals. Is it really that unsafe down there? Or is the media just covering it extra close, because its downtown?
I'm confident crime will decrease once downtown reaches that critical mass. Its harder to stick up people when there is a lot of vehicles and pedestrians out. That's what Times Square so safe.
- 3,235
Lure closed a few weeks back and reopened over the Halloween weekend as Club Amnesia.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:I've been gone a lot lately, but came across this: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... fdddd.html. So is Lure closed as of about 3 weeks ago?
ETA: Saw this KMOV article too: http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Lure-nig ... 43589.html
Crimereports.com shows two citations for "Assault w/ a deadly weapon, 2nd degree." One for each combatant, apparently. But who knows, perhaps the charges were dropped?shopgirl10 wrote:So I heard a funny story... This is gossip but from a Downtown resident that watched the fight. Here goes. Ted walks in the Wash Post, words are exchanged with Bob. They decide to take "it" outside. Ted goes first, Bob grabs his nunchucks and follows. More words, a few swings and a chair was "hurled" at Bob. Now as I was not there I cannot say what is or is not true but this did not come from a person I would consider a gossip. Furthermore as someone who knows Bob pretty well,I would say most of it is plausible. No one is sure what happened to the nunchucks when the police arrived but they were swept away and no one was charged - just held for 24 hours. The best part of the story is Bob "the nunchuck master" wants to sue Ted.
Woman suing shuttered St. Louis nightclub (Lure)
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 2bc8b.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 2bc8b.html
- 1,000
Pretty much of a nothing story. That sort of lawsuit happens to all sorts of places.ewest wrote:Woman suing shuttered St. Louis nightclub (Lure)
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 2bc8b.html
Downtown was dead this past Friday. In town to visit family.
I tipped the bartenders more than usual considering they had a lot fewer patrons. Oh that and because I was treated like a King due to scarcity.
Nice to see how this extra media attention hasn't produced the desired outcome.
Perhaps that's because we can't address crime on a street-by-street basis when extreme poverty exists in proximity? That is unless there's G-20 style police action. And illegal "random searches" (profiling) won't solve the problem either. Did the paramilitary LAPD reduce crime? No. Rather it created mistrust and riots.
Seems like the "wrong element" hasn't left but quite a few suburbanites did.
Maybe next time consider the outcome when we flash images of black males in the context of St. Louis' (and American) fear of urban (black) crime? I mean I find it ironic that the City (or rather suburbanite media hucksters) would use these images to justify cracking down when in the short run reinforcing this fear will harm downtown business owners. If people believe downtown is the wild west then what do you think will happen?
But, whatever, continue your NIMBY "trash follows trash" arguments and shut down more clubs. In the long run once the trash leaves whitey will feel safe in their gentrified haven and the police won't need to have extra patrols. Has anyone considered gating off Washington Avenue branding it Busch's Grove Village? Once that's done please move down to Cherokee. The new street lights really illuminate the trash on that street. I hear crime has declined but I don't think we should be satisfied until its given proper treatment.
Rather has there been any discussion of banning 18+ permits citywide? What has Slay done to lobby nationally for jobs in the North Side? Are we working with the FBI/DEA/ATF to address the amount of illegal firearms on the street? Are we funding anti-violence/gang programs to the extent we should?
This problem is structural. Without addressing the root causes the pattern continues. Urban crime is the result of investment leaving the core for the suburban fringe. Public safety can't be restored by profiling or "moving trash" to other neighborhoods. I think rather community development planning specifically argues against marginalization and for rather integration and investment in poor neighborhoods. Unless current strategy happens to be a manifestation of shrinking city triage, in which case we're hopelessly stuck in the 1970's. I would hope those working on these issues would partner with organizations citywide to address this problem rather than only focusing upon their fragment of the City.
I tipped the bartenders more than usual considering they had a lot fewer patrons. Oh that and because I was treated like a King due to scarcity.
Nice to see how this extra media attention hasn't produced the desired outcome.
Perhaps that's because we can't address crime on a street-by-street basis when extreme poverty exists in proximity? That is unless there's G-20 style police action. And illegal "random searches" (profiling) won't solve the problem either. Did the paramilitary LAPD reduce crime? No. Rather it created mistrust and riots.
Seems like the "wrong element" hasn't left but quite a few suburbanites did.
Maybe next time consider the outcome when we flash images of black males in the context of St. Louis' (and American) fear of urban (black) crime? I mean I find it ironic that the City (or rather suburbanite media hucksters) would use these images to justify cracking down when in the short run reinforcing this fear will harm downtown business owners. If people believe downtown is the wild west then what do you think will happen?
But, whatever, continue your NIMBY "trash follows trash" arguments and shut down more clubs. In the long run once the trash leaves whitey will feel safe in their gentrified haven and the police won't need to have extra patrols. Has anyone considered gating off Washington Avenue branding it Busch's Grove Village? Once that's done please move down to Cherokee. The new street lights really illuminate the trash on that street. I hear crime has declined but I don't think we should be satisfied until its given proper treatment.
Rather has there been any discussion of banning 18+ permits citywide? What has Slay done to lobby nationally for jobs in the North Side? Are we working with the FBI/DEA/ATF to address the amount of illegal firearms on the street? Are we funding anti-violence/gang programs to the extent we should?
This problem is structural. Without addressing the root causes the pattern continues. Urban crime is the result of investment leaving the core for the suburban fringe. Public safety can't be restored by profiling or "moving trash" to other neighborhoods. I think rather community development planning specifically argues against marginalization and for rather integration and investment in poor neighborhoods. Unless current strategy happens to be a manifestation of shrinking city triage, in which case we're hopelessly stuck in the 1970's. I would hope those working on these issues would partner with organizations citywide to address this problem rather than only focusing upon their fragment of the City.
- 3,235
Doug are you sure? I walked through at 130 and it was rather busy. In addition every bar was butthole to butthole at 8 on Saturday night.
That's because Doug lives in an alternative universe. The one he makes up himself.
Are there any cities in the US that you could use as a reference that have successfully done what you are talking about?Doug wrote:
What has Slay done to lobby nationally for jobs in the North Side? Are we working with the FBI/DEA/ATF to address the amount of illegal firearms on the street? Are we funding anti-violence/gang programs to the extent we should?
This problem is structural. Without addressing the root causes the pattern continues. Urban crime is the result of investment leaving the core for the suburban fringe. Public safety can't be restored by profiling or "moving trash" to other neighborhoods. I think rather community development planning specifically argues against marginalization and for rather integration and investment in poor neighborhoods. Unless current strategy happens to be a manifestation of shrinking city triage, in which case we're hopelessly stuck in the 1970's. I would hope those working on these issues would partner with organizations citywide to address this problem rather than only focusing upon their fragment of the City.
I doubt the Mayor or anyone at City Hall has viewed this as an either/or option...Theyre gonna move the trash out AND do everything they can to make all of St. Louis safe...
Wash Ave is a speacial place for this City and I would argue for the region...It will be protected by any and all means necessary...
And I sympathize with teh structural arguments...there are a lot more gunfighters coming out of north St. Louis than Ladue...
But I have come to the conclusion that the best hope for poor neighborhoods and their marginalized inhabitants is our community's investors and thinkers and entrepreneurs...And these folks will come out of and hang out in areas like Wash Ave...
I care much about dear old ladies on the north side and can sympathize with their young adult grandkids who have to wonder just how they are going to get outta their neighborhood...but none of these folks are likely to be the catalyst for the grand structrual reforms that would change their lot...
Again, its our community's brightest minds and hardest workers who have applied themselves for a long time at their education and professions that will be in postition to change the City...and I'm telling you, these people need to find a home in the City or they won't stay to help...
Wash Ave is a speacial place for this City and I would argue for the region...It will be protected by any and all means necessary...
And I sympathize with teh structural arguments...there are a lot more gunfighters coming out of north St. Louis than Ladue...
But I have come to the conclusion that the best hope for poor neighborhoods and their marginalized inhabitants is our community's investors and thinkers and entrepreneurs...And these folks will come out of and hang out in areas like Wash Ave...
I care much about dear old ladies on the north side and can sympathize with their young adult grandkids who have to wonder just how they are going to get outta their neighborhood...but none of these folks are likely to be the catalyst for the grand structrual reforms that would change their lot...
Again, its our community's brightest minds and hardest workers who have applied themselves for a long time at their education and professions that will be in postition to change the City...and I'm telling you, these people need to find a home in the City or they won't stay to help...
- 320
Big shots are having some sort of VIP meeting on Washington Avenue at this very hour. I'm eating over at the Washington Avenue Post.
Did anyone attend the downtown safety meeting at Ozzies yesterday? I think one of my neighbors did, but have yet to talk to them.
- 2,093
Actually I agree with much of what Doug says about community investment city wide and keeping illegal firearms off the street and out of the hands of criminals.
But what is missing from all of his posts is cracking the skulls of the thugs who commit these crimes.
If he could get on board with the idea of car batteries being attached to the nut satchels of anyone who pulls a gun on an innocent citizen I'd support him for mayor
But what is missing from all of his posts is cracking the skulls of the thugs who commit these crimes.
If he could get on board with the idea of car batteries being attached to the nut satchels of anyone who pulls a gun on an innocent citizen I'd support him for mayor
- 3,235
Does anyone know when the appeals court will make the final hearing on Lure and when the hearing on the petition for Lures license is going to occur? I haven't heard any updates since the meeting at Ozzies.
It appears the petition hearing will be held next Friday, the 10th, at 10am in City Hall.Downtown2007 wrote:Does anyone know when the appeals court will make the final hearing on Lure and when the hearing on the petition for Lures license is going to occur? I haven't heard any updates since the meeting at Ozzies.
So the petition does not have enough signatures? I thought there was already enough?
^ Were you there? I got a phone update from someone that was at the hearing. Apparently those against Lure were two signatures short of a majority. However, there were two or three cases of apparent fraudulent affidavits in support of Lure. I believe the people whose signatures were forged will testify to that in court next Wednesday.Downtown2007 wrote:So the petition does not have enough signatures? I thought there was already enough?
Fraud is bad, mmmkay.
- 3,235
No I wasn't there. Saw it on the news. I was wondering how a few signatures disappeared,
^ Signatures were contested for various reasons. The process could be a bit more clear.
Here's some news coverage:
- http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Club-Lur ... 73814.html
- http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kwmu/ ... ense.again
Here's some news coverage:
- http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Club-Lur ... 73814.html
- http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kwmu/ ... ense.again
- 3,235
Since they are 2 signatures short what is the process for getting the 2 needed? Can they simply get them and request another hearing or does the petition process start all over again?
^ Fraudulent signatures may likely be thrown out. That could turn the tables. If not, a dispute can be placed within 30 days. The time for turning in signatures ended a while ago and I'm pretty sure you can't initiate another protest for the same complaint.
- 6,775
The PD does: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... 2bc8b.htmlmisty1711 wrote:Does anyone know what happened at the hearing this morning?