urbanSTL

I heard that a board member of the DSLRA and a supporter of Washington Avenue Liaisons (WAL) had a major throwdown not too long ago related to this same issue. Looks like people are really getting out of hand here. Keep it together, people!

Wonder what WAL's take on this most recent murder is?

Washington Avenue Liaisons Post on FB wrote: Oh Snapp...the DSLRA wants to shut us down!

Apparently, The Downtown Residents Association (DSLRA) believes that they have a patent on the people of downtown St. Louis. They believe they OWN the “voices” and control the people of downtown St. Louis. I was told by one of the board members that “they were the ONLY officially recognized group for the people of downtown St. Louis and that we (The Wash Ave Liaisons) had to go away.” I find that offensive as I have a voice and have decided to exercise this voice and vision through the Washington Ave Liaisons group. Not only was I told that each individual board member can do and say as they please in any manner that they want but I was also told they will not be held accountable or responsible for what they do or say to others as board members.

Along with others, we believe that we can speak perfectly well for ourselves. Yes, there are many organizations that are formed to act as a vehicle to “help” get things done, but ultimately if things are going to be done it will be done "BY THE PEOPLE.” I always get annoyed when someone else tries to control what I say or think or do…I believe that people who want to control others can not have our best interests at heart. With this being said, I feel that the DSLRA should not under any circumstances represent what I have to say. For any organization to come around and tell me that they want to have the sole “control” about what will happen in downtown St. Louis, how it will happen, and when it will happen is a plain flat out NO-NO! Grassroot organizations have and will continue to get many things done that big bulky power-hungry and money-hungry “official” organizations can not and will not do.

I don’t like being threatened by board members! I don’t like being backed into a corner and told that they have “inside sources” that are telling them this and telling them that and that they don’t like what they are hearing. I especially don’t like it when what they are hearing is NOT TRUE! Well Mr. Board Member of the DSLRA, I don’t know you and don’t want to get to know you…nor do I want to know your “reliable sources” who lie and make up stories to get people fighting against each other because they have nothing else better to do; your so-called “reliable sources” whom you won’t and refuse to name are LIARS. So please, for the record move on! I don’t like the combat style you wheel and deal. If these “government officials” you claim to know only care about “your” organization and what you have to say, then these said officials are not representing me. WE can do anything you can do….WITHOUT all the fancy titles and mumbo jumbo you sling!

And to think I was actually trying to help the DSLRA…no good deed goes unpunished.
~Marqui~

Washington Avenue Liaison

We are in NO WAY, SHAPE or FORM an entity that starts or promotes the disbanding of any business in this area!!!! There are other agencies for those types of affairs and we are not in that type of business. We are here as a vehicle to promote the peaceful coexistence of Nightlife and Entertainment (NE) establishments and the residents that live around them.

Purpose: The Washington Avenue Liaisons (WAL) is an unincorporated volunteer community group that was created to address the concerns and suggestions for the Nightlife and Entertainment NE establishments conducting business along Washington Avenue in Downtown St. Louis. Roughly speaking, our primary concern is currently focused on those NE businesses that are located on Washington Ave between 9th and 15th street. However, we welcome our NE friends from other areas and offer any support that we can to them as well.

The community group is comprised of all volunteer residents. We do not collect dues, fees, or donations of any kind. We do not accept payoff, kickbacks, or bribes for any reason or cause. The only thing we do accept is your voice! We want to know your opinions, questions, and suggestions, regarding the NE establishments in this area and what you would like to see happen and WHAT YOU CAN DO to help make those things a reality for the benefit of those businesses and the residents.

To that end, WAL's purpose is:

1. To increase resident and NE business owner peaceful communication.

2. To provide a platform that centralizes, organizes and increase resident and NE business owners' involvement in community projects and opportunities that will help make this area safer, cleaner, and most importantly FUN!

3. To work in partnership with other organizations to help keep downtown safe, clean, and thriving. (NOTE: We have and are trying this but it seems that some organizations want to be the ONLY game in town! We will keep you posted.)

4. To act as a liaison between the NE business establishments and residents for working in harmony to build a better cooperative relationships between businesses and residents so that we can improve the community together.

We hope to bring about a POSITIVE change within our community, promote and suggest practical solutions to help solve our problems and work in harmony to make downtown a growing and vibrant place for St Louisans and tourists alike. Let's join hands and make our neighborhood a better more harmonious place to live!

Whoa, sounds interesting and getting way out of hand. Someone was in a fight and hospitalized? I think people that live in the area deserve to hear more since it's not only a business vs business issue but a "we" issue.

Gone Corporate wrote:

innov8ion wrote:I heard that a board member of the DSLRA and a supporter of Washington Avenue Liaisons (WAL) had a major throwdown not too long ago related to this same issue. Looks like people are really getting out of hand here. Keep it together, people!

Wonder what WAL's take on this most recent murder is?

I actually saw the aftermath of that all go down, and believe me it was a giant mess, damn scary. Because of the nature of the attack, I don't really want to go into the story until the injured are in better healths & able to speak for themselves if they want to. Serious stuff, hospitalization and all. But, I can say that there was a fight, a respected business owner along Wash Ave was attacked by someone, that the business owner is a friend of the WAL, and that the WAL side was not in the wrong here. I'm not about to comment here as to the identity of the other party, other than it sure as sh*t wasn't me.

Also, I think this is OT to this thread. Their beef is founded in the cross-missions of these groups, and a fight for perceived political influence & its expansion / retention. Or, the fight had nothing to do with Lure or any other club. Inno, if you have any questions, PM me, but I'm thinking the story of all this should come out soon on its own.

What makes you think the story will come out soon on its own?

And I'm not sure how it's off topic to this thread. Another murder took place downtown in relation to club activity. For better or worse, residents depend on the DSLRA to represent our interests (particularly in relation with safety.) Based upon personal experience and knowledge of recent events, my confidence and respect for the DSLRA is severely diminished. If residents were aware of the extent at which the DSLRA is dysfunctional, they might be a bit concerned.

As far as the other side goes, I wouldn't exactly consider them completely innocent. Hot-headed and vindictive might be a fair description. Look at the words that WAL uses to describe themselves in their mission: peaceful communication, working in harmony with other organizations, acting as a liaison between residents and businesses, etc. On the other hand, check out WAL's Facebook rant against the DSLRA that's posted above. This is just a sampling of the positivity, harmony, and maturity that WAL contributes to our neighborhood. Needless to say, there's a bit of a contrast between WAL's mission and that of their cancerous actions.

Bob Ray, this "respected" businessperson had made veiled threats to others while stating he had run smear campaigns in Chico, CA and is known as the gossip queen of the Washington Avenue Post. More than one person has told me they're afraid to speak out about sh*t that's happening for fear that they will be smeared and their reputation in the neighborhood damaged. I should know. I've received harassing emails from him and been told by multiple sources that he's been spreading BS about me ever since expressing what's been going on with Club Lure and WAL. It's also why I'm not afraid to speak out against him. But did Bob deserve to have a chair thrown at him outside his own establishment? Perhaps he could have been taught a lesson without physical violence.

I mean, both sides have bullied and manipulated others. And how did it end up for them? Hospital and jail. Could it be that each was trying to knock some sense into the other? It's not clear if either succeeded but it is apparent that karma's a b.i.t.c.h.

Aw come on. It's also not nice to not finish a story you start.

I heard a little bit about this fight but had know idea it was so involved and that people actually got hurt.

Gone Corporate wrote:...as I don't want to be thought a gossiper...

Now instead of thinking you're a gossiper, we think you're a tease.

Gone Corporate wrote:^ Respectfully, as I don't want to be thought a gossiper either, I'll hold back comments on this thread.

I respect that but the truth isn't gossip. Especially when it exposes people and groups with agendas that don't exactly mesh with the betterment of the neighborhood. The time has come to get real with each other so people know what's really going on...

Why WAL and the DSLRA were squabbling in the first place is a bit ridiculous. After all, it didn't seem that they held beliefs that were too far apart. When I asked DSLRA President Earline Bell whether she and the DSLRA condoned Club Lure's claims of racism, she provided no comment. The DSLRA also refused to turn in the neighborhood signatures that would begin a liquor license hearing for Club Lure. Additionally, at a neighborhood meeting sponsored by and held at Club Lure, the DSLRA safety committee leader spoke out in support of the club. Curious choices for a body supposedly representative of downtown residents in which a majority signed a petition supporting the removal of Lure's liquor license, but so be it.

So why the contention between WAL and the DSLRA? At a neighborhood meeting attended by Mayor Slay's Chief of Staff, an argument over political power ensued between Ted Mills of the DSLRA and WAL. (I mean, seriously???) This is verified by multiple accounts and even captured on video. Needless to say, this festered over a period of about a month and culminated in Ted becoming further upset after being denied access to WAL's Facebook page. (I was banned from the WAL page as well but didn't lose any sleep over it. She was upset with me for posting photos of damaged furniture caused by Lure patrons. Although I suppose it was my fault for sharing information counter to her agenda.) Anyway, Ted soon paid Bob a visit at the Washington Avenue Post where a battle ensued with a chair, a baton, and fists. They continued to pummel each other until the cops and ambulance came.

There's not much more to the fight, really. But given the recent spate of behavior by DSLRA board members, one could question the place current members hold in representing the interests of downtown residents. Especially given additional information involving the DSLRA President and Ted Mills that I'm still holding back...

As for WAL, the level of maturity displayed by this group is astounding. (Check out the enraged comments from SunnyHazeSTL in this P-D comments section.) Why a group like WAL that purported to further neighborhood harmony initiated childish battles with the DSLRA & Downtown Partnership is beyond me. Got issues? Try resolving them in a civil manner.

As for Bob, he may not have thrown the first blow, but this isn't the first time he's gotten involved in his girlfriend's drama and threatened others. One DSLRA member confided in me that he attempted to mediate between Bob & Ted but apparently didn't do enough and was threatened in the process. His reward for trying to help was this paraphrased comment from Bob, "I used to run political smear campaigns in Chico, CA so watch your step." And quoted below is an extract from just one in a series of harassing emails (including a physical threat) that I received from the same Bob Ray of the Washington Avenue Post and Knightwatch.

This drama is plain sad. All I can say is that I believe in karma and don't fear the truth. The downtown neighborhood deserves better than bullies like Bob with misguided agendas.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Goldstick <dave@innov8ion.com>
Date: Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Personal attacks are not tolerated
To: KnightWatch <bob@stlknightwatch.com>

I asked you to state one lie or prove slander, Bob. You have not, although you have succeeded in putting words in my mouth. For example, I never stated anything about bribery. That's just plain ridiculous.

For the reasons stated in the previous email, it is fair to question the neutrality of Washington Avenue Liaisons. You may not like it, but it is a reasonable concern and my right to express it.

I will no longer tolerate your abusive, childish behavior, Bob. And since you have such a keen interest in slander, I don't want to hear about you slandering me as you repeatedly attempted to do on urbanSTL.

Please do not communicate with nor harass me further.

Regards,
Dave

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: KnightWatch <bob@stlknightwatch.com>
Date: Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: Personal attacks are not tolerated
To: David Goldstick <dave@innov8ion.com>

Dave.

Look up ad-hominem.

David Goldstick has mental problems.
David Goldstick cannot be taken seriously.
Therefore David Goldstick has erectile disfuction.

That is an ad-hominem.

Stop attacking my girlfriend and I'll leave you alone. She has never posted one negative thing about you. You keep this up and it's on.

Trust me when I say, I've been looking for you. Face to face.
I don't believe in attacking people while hiding behind aliases and online forums.

Bob

^ Ted Mills is a board member of the Downtown St. Louis Residents Association (DSLRA).

• Additional foot patrol officers will be added to Washington Avenue on Thursdays through Sundays from 11pm to 4am for visibility and enforcement.
• Additional traffic officers will help control the flow of traffic on Thursdays through Sundays from 11pm to 4am.
• The St. Louis Police Department officers will be conducting random safety checkpoints. These checkpoints will be at varied locations in the Washington Avenue entertainment district and police will be checking for drivers’ licenses, vehicle registrations, seatbelt violations, etc.


http://urbanreviewstl.com/2010/11/pr-ci ... on-avenue/

This should fix the problem but what took so long.

Alex Ihnen wrote:

Moorlander wrote:• Additional foot patrol officers will be added to Washington Avenue on Thursdays through Sundays from 11pm to 4am for visibility and enforcement.
• Additional traffic officers will help control the flow of traffic on Thursdays through Sundays from 11pm to 4am.
• The St. Louis Police Department officers will be conducting random safety checkpoints. These checkpoints will be at varied locations in the Washington Avenue entertainment district and police will be checking for drivers’ licenses, vehicle registrations, seatbelt violations, etc.


http://urbanreviewstl.com/2010/11/pr-ci ... on-avenue/

This should fix the problem but what took so long.

That's a "fix" that lands on taxpayers.

and is the typical rob Peter to pay Paul solution the PD is stuck with resorting to.

So who ended up in jail? What a crazy story. I havent seen Bob at the Post in a while.

Its amazing how people will let a few sleazy nightclubs ruin their life. So I guess Ted was mad because he got in a grudge match with WAL on who the true voice of residents are? The WAL group has one goal and thats to keep Lure open. They can care less about the residents.

I was at the meeting that Rainford spoke at and I lost all confidence for the DSLRA after they issued a statement that they were for Lure staying open. What a joke. Then Ted started talking Marqui as I was leaving and I guess thats when everything went downhill. I was actually thinking about joining the DSLRA but not sure after these events.

Do you mind sharing what other events you are holding back?

From what little I know about WAL, I'm only going by what I've read. I thought WAL's main objective was to make sure another entity doesn't gain control of liquor licenses in the neighborhood, that the decision should remain with the people in the petitions 500 feet radius (or whatever distance it is...not sure if it's 500feet). This whole situation is very confusing.

So I heard a funny story... This is gossip but from a Downtown resident that watched the fight. Here goes. Ted walks in the Wash Post, words are exchanged with Bob. They decide to take "it" outside. Ted goes first, Bob grabs his nunchucks and follows. More words, a few swings and a chair was "hurled" at Bob. Now as I was not there I cannot say what is or is not true but this did not come from a person I would consider a gossip. Furthermore as someone who knows Bob pretty well,I would say most of it is plausible. No one is sure what happened to the nunchucks when the police arrived but they were swept away and no one was charged - just held for 24 hours. The best part of the story is Bob "the nunchuck master" wants to sue Ted.

Did it take place right out on Washington Ave in broad daylight?

Wow! Downtown must be viewed as a place of easy lickings for criminals. Is it really that unsafe down there? Or is the media just covering it extra close, because its downtown?

I'm confident crime will decrease once downtown reaches that critical mass. Its harder to stick up people when there is a lot of vehicles and pedestrians out. That's what Times Square so safe.

goat314 wrote:Wow! Downtown must be viewed as a place of easy lickings for criminals. Is it really that unsafe down there? Or is the media just covering it extra close, because its downtown?

Bingo. According to CrimeReports, there were daytime robberies in Holly Hills and Compton Heights in the last 2 weeks and I don't recall reading a story about those. At least outside the one line blurb in the suburban journals.