You know about as much as I do.Downtown2007 wrote:Has anything been communicated on when he will make the decision? What about the hearing for the petition?
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Are there any other clubs at 15th and Wash besides Sugar? I looked at three reports on this, and only one gave even a semblance of a precise locator ("15th and Washington"). The KSDK thing about "on the sidewalk outside of several businesses" (or words to that effect) was simply bizarre. What the hell else is open at 2:30 in the morning?
^ Europe is a block or two north of 15th & Washington. And Sugar is @ 14th and Washington.
I think it depends how you count. I'd put Sugar between 14th and 15th, which for your average non-native reporter could easily come up as 15th and Wash.
The random violent events that go on downtown after the clubs let out most stop. I'm confident that Downtown St. Louis has a bright future and eventually they will get everything under control, but it definitely doesn't give a good impression to visitors.
Downtown is probably the safest neighborhood in St. Louis, but when some drunk hothead gets stabbed, beat down, or shot after leaving a seedy club
.....Fox2 is going to cover it like it was the Valentine's Day Massacre. Then a lot of people that have never been downtown will conclude that Washington Avenue is a hell hole and never give it a shot (no pun intended).
Personally I would like to see Downtown promote more upscale clubs (dress codes and all, black or white, hip hop, rock, techno, whatever!) because I've noticed that when you let people walk into clubs with their pants sagging, somebodies leaving butt naked (not in a good way) or in an ambulance.
When I would go clubbing in college they kept the bullsh*t to a minimum after the club by having police officers already outside. Maybe when the clubs let out we need to have about 10-20 patrol cars lining Washington.
Downtown is probably the safest neighborhood in St. Louis, but when some drunk hothead gets stabbed, beat down, or shot after leaving a seedy club
.....Fox2 is going to cover it like it was the Valentine's Day Massacre. Then a lot of people that have never been downtown will conclude that Washington Avenue is a hell hole and never give it a shot (no pun intended). Personally I would like to see Downtown promote more upscale clubs (dress codes and all, black or white, hip hop, rock, techno, whatever!) because I've noticed that when you let people walk into clubs with their pants sagging, somebodies leaving butt naked (not in a good way) or in an ambulance.
When I would go clubbing in college they kept the bullsh*t to a minimum after the club by having police officers already outside. Maybe when the clubs let out we need to have about 10-20 patrol cars lining Washington.
Seriously. This is one of the busiest, most visible areas of the entire city and someone thought they could get away with walking up and shooting someone on a sidewalk. This speaks both to the boldness of the criminals in this city and perhaps the sorely lacking police presence on Washington. I know of several people who will never go down on Washington and things like the Lure incident and this reinforce that view.
I can't think of any recent homicides/shootings in other happening parts of the city such as the Landing, the Loop, CWE's main areas, South Grand, etc. There has to be a common denominator that these criminals choose Washington Avenue. Maybe I'm exaggerating but this might be my favorite part of town and this kind of crap should definitely not be happening here.
I can't think of any recent homicides/shootings in other happening parts of the city such as the Landing, the Loop, CWE's main areas, South Grand, etc. There has to be a common denominator that these criminals choose Washington Avenue. Maybe I'm exaggerating but this might be my favorite part of town and this kind of crap should definitely not be happening here.
It was 2:30am on a Sunday night. I wouldn't exactly call it a bustling time on Washington Avenue. And apparently some club promoters attract those with less value for human life than others. Dress codes might be nice, but not sure it would improve safety altogether.
Insanity....
I agree with the comment about having a heavier police presence when these clubs let out...how hard could it be to ensure the beat cops on shift are around at closing time...
I agree with the comment about having a heavier police presence when these clubs let out...how hard could it be to ensure the beat cops on shift are around at closing time...
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^ Let's not put the issue on the beat cops. I get the point, but the responsibility is that of the club owners.
Really the responsibility lies on the patrons of the clubs. Too me that's like blaming schools for poorly behaved kids when really it's the parent responsibility. Since the patrons are adults it's their responsibility to behave properly. My opinion only and yes I know most of you won't like it. But really what is the club supposed to do? How would they know someone is going to go out and shoot someone? Anyhow, I know this topic has been beaten to death. Did anyone hear about the owner of the Washington Ave. post getting beat up on Wash Ave? I hear it was somehow politically involved. Anyone know what happened there? Was it about the clubs? If so, that means the violence is going way beyond the clubs and yes, something has to be done! Crazy.
I live north of 14th on Wash. ave and heard the gun shots this morning. They did sound like they were coming from Wash. Ave not by Club Europe as far as I could tell. The car that went up Wash. Ave afterwards must have been going well over 100 miles per hour. Scary.
I live north of 14th on Wash. ave and heard the gun shots this morning. They did sound like they were coming from Wash. Ave not by Club Europe as far as I could tell. The car that went up Wash. Ave afterwards must have been going well over 100 miles per hour. Scary.
So whatever happened to proper spelling coming out of St. Louis news outlets? GRAND Prix.Downtown2007 wrote:Our wonderful clubs are in the news again.
http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.as ... 92&catid=3
By the way, it was eerily quite outside before this happened. Washington Ave. was not one of the busiest neighborhoods at the time. It's often eerily quite out there.
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Even easier.....shut them down. $100 says the shooter and/or the "victim" were in one of those clubs last night. I don't imagine this is going over well in city hall, especially since Sugar just got off the hook the last time.RobbyD wrote:Insanity....
I agree with the comment about having a heavier police presence when these clubs let out...how hard could it be to ensure the beat cops on shift are around at closing time...
Since the Trupianos are still open I'd venture to guess that city hall doesn't care one bit as long as the tax revenue, liquor license revenue and associated gift envelopes filled with stacks of $100's keep coming in.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:RobbyD wrote:I don't imagine this is going over well in city hall, especially since Sugar just got off the hook the last time.
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It's out of their hands.dweebe wrote:Since the Trupianos are still open I'd venture to guess that city hall doesn't care one bit as long as the tax revenue, liquor license revenue and associated gift envelopes filled with stacks of $100's keep coming in.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:RobbyD wrote:I don't imagine this is going over well in city hall, especially since Sugar just got off the hook the last time.
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KMOV confirms the victin was at Sugar immediately prior to being shot:
Only 20 years old, so I guess Sugar's crowd is 18+ for Sunday nights. Add this to the shooting that took place there earlier this summer when 3 other kids were shot a block south of the club, as opposed to the shooting last night / this morning being one block west. At least the gunman is described in good detail, so hopefully they'll be caught.
Yeah, nothing like coming home from a Halloween party, still in a silly costume, only to see a dozen patrol cars right down the block for another one of these idiotic club shootings. It was eerily quiet last night on the block until this.
Four kids, all patrons of Sugar, shot these last couple of months, ostensibly all of them by other Sugar patrons, and all of them on Sunday nights. Whatever their Sunday night party is, they better shut that down, because this is disgusting.
Source: http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Man-shot ... 40353.htmlHomicide investigators are going through evidence after a fatal shooting in downtown St. Louis.
It happened around 2:30 a.m. Monday in the 1500 block of Washington.
Witnesses at the scene told police that a 20-year-old Travis Parker was leaving Sugar Nightclub when a red Grand Prix drove by and stopped.
The suspect got out of the car and started shooting at the victim. The suspect then fled in a vehicle described as a Green Ford Taurus which pulled behind the Grand Prix. That vehicle fled west on Washington.
Parker was shot multiple times. He was transported to an area hospital where he was pronounced dead.
Authorities said there had been some sort of verbal argument between Parker and the suspect. It was not random.
The suspect is described as a black male in his early 20s, around 6'1", ear-length dreadlocks with blonde tips, goatee, wearing a red hooded sweatshirt and blue jeans
The investigation is ongoing.
Only 20 years old, so I guess Sugar's crowd is 18+ for Sunday nights. Add this to the shooting that took place there earlier this summer when 3 other kids were shot a block south of the club, as opposed to the shooting last night / this morning being one block west. At least the gunman is described in good detail, so hopefully they'll be caught.
Yeah, nothing like coming home from a Halloween party, still in a silly costume, only to see a dozen patrol cars right down the block for another one of these idiotic club shootings. It was eerily quiet last night on the block until this.
Four kids, all patrons of Sugar, shot these last couple of months, ostensibly all of them by other Sugar patrons, and all of them on Sunday nights. Whatever their Sunday night party is, they better shut that down, because this is disgusting.
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They were involved in the ones over the summer. Why wouldn't they be now. I would encourage everyone to complain to the alderman, NSO Rep, and the owner of the club. This must end.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
It's out of their hands.
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The judge granted an extension. There's nothing the city can do. Other than put Sugar back on the sh*t list. Which I would suspect might happen, especially if enough people complain.Downtown2007 wrote:They were involved in the ones over the summer. Why wouldn't they be now. I would encourage everyone to complain to the alderman, NSO Rep, and the owner of the club. This must end.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
It's out of their hands.
Complaining to the owner of the club would be pointless.
So what is the status of Lure or whatever it's called? Will the place remain open as long as the judge gets handed a weekly stippend?The Central Scrutinizer wrote:The judge granted an extension. There's nothing the city can do. Other than put Sugar back on the sh*t list. Which I would suspect might happen, especially if enough people complain.Downtown2007 wrote:They were involved in the ones over the summer. Why wouldn't they be now. I would encourage everyone to complain to the alderman, NSO Rep, and the owner of the club. This must end.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
It's out of their hands.
Complaining to the owner of the club would be pointless.
And let me guess. The city will try to close Sugar, they'll lawyer up, remain open and the bodies will keep piling up along Washington Ave.
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You're suggesting the judge is accepting bribes? Any evidence for that?dweebe wrote:So what is the status of Lure or whatever it's called? Will the place remain open as long as the judge gets handed a weekly stippend?
And let me guess. The city will try to close Sugar, they'll lawyer up, remain open and the bodies will keep piling up along Washington Ave.
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^ I'm sure that allegation has no proof whatsoever and is a non-issue.
Meanwhile, the Post-Dispatch now says the shooter was maybe not in Sugar immediately prior to the shooting, but again confirms that the victim was in there. Apparently, the two exchanged words over a girl before the one shot the other.
Source: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... e08f5.html
Also in that article: Jeff Rainford said Sugar did agree to take steps to reduce such violence at their club, including regular & standardized security by off-duty police at the club & immediate area, meant to last a full hour after the club closes. Police investigating this murder will be going over whether these actions did anything, if they were sufficient enough, and if the club has fulfilled all of its responsibilities as pledged earlier this year. Should anything happen to the club, it would only be after all this takes place.
OK, so no blame yet on the club; after all, you can't control every a**h*le who walks into your bar.
Same time, this is the fourth kid shot there in the last few months, and the first murder, done so in the middle of the street in front of a reasonable crowd for that time and hour. Incredibly brazen. It compels one to ask: is the club's mere existence something that attracts the criminally minded? Even if the shooter wasn't in the club, was he there anyways because he was drawn to the club's crowds? How do you stop that? I'll acknowledge that I'm sure there are better ways to phrase that question, and I'm not looking to just shut down all clubs. Still, much as how QuikTrips have been denied in other parts of the city under the auspices of increasing trespassing and transient populations to neighborhoods: is there a parallel?
Meanwhile, the Post-Dispatch now says the shooter was maybe not in Sugar immediately prior to the shooting, but again confirms that the victim was in there. Apparently, the two exchanged words over a girl before the one shot the other.
Source: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... e08f5.html
Also in that article: Jeff Rainford said Sugar did agree to take steps to reduce such violence at their club, including regular & standardized security by off-duty police at the club & immediate area, meant to last a full hour after the club closes. Police investigating this murder will be going over whether these actions did anything, if they were sufficient enough, and if the club has fulfilled all of its responsibilities as pledged earlier this year. Should anything happen to the club, it would only be after all this takes place.
OK, so no blame yet on the club; after all, you can't control every a**h*le who walks into your bar.
Same time, this is the fourth kid shot there in the last few months, and the first murder, done so in the middle of the street in front of a reasonable crowd for that time and hour. Incredibly brazen. It compels one to ask: is the club's mere existence something that attracts the criminally minded? Even if the shooter wasn't in the club, was he there anyways because he was drawn to the club's crowds? How do you stop that? I'll acknowledge that I'm sure there are better ways to phrase that question, and I'm not looking to just shut down all clubs. Still, much as how QuikTrips have been denied in other parts of the city under the auspices of increasing trespassing and transient populations to neighborhoods: is there a parallel?
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"It compels one to ask: is the club's mere existence something that attracts the criminally minded?"
yes.
yes.
I agree, Alex.
If I owned a business anywhere downtown, I would be rallying other owners and people of influence IN A SIGNIFICANT WAY to put pressure on these club owners to take care of their business. Whatever that means. And I would make sure the City cops (who I admire) are doing all they can to have a presence when these partiers and OTHER THUG LUNATICS are making their way home.
I could rant for hours...literally.
If I owned a business anywhere downtown, I would be rallying other owners and people of influence IN A SIGNIFICANT WAY to put pressure on these club owners to take care of their business. Whatever that means. And I would make sure the City cops (who I admire) are doing all they can to have a presence when these partiers and OTHER THUG LUNATICS are making their way home.
I could rant for hours...literally.
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Trash is drawn to trash. So yes, even if they weren't actually in the club, they wouldn't have been there had the club not been in business. This is why no one has been shot in or in front of Flannery's or The Dubliner or Me'Shon's. Because they don't draw trash.Gone Corporate wrote:It compels one to ask: is the club's mere existence something that attracts the criminally minded? Even if the shooter wasn't in the club, was he there anyways because he was drawn to the club's crowds? How do you stop that? I'll acknowledge that I'm sure there are better ways to phrase that question, and I'm not looking to just shut down all clubs. Still, much as how QuikTrips have been denied in other parts of the city under the auspices of increasing trespassing and transient populations to neighborhoods: is there a parallel?
Solution? You shut them down. I think we're going to discover that Sugar did not have the extra security on duty.