Do some of the buildings in the petition circle have parking in the first three floors or basement of the building? Do owners of lofts above the third floor own deeded parking spaces on those levels? If so, are those owners included in the population of the petition circle?
Once these liquor licenses get yanked, maybe the next target is to fix this clause. Are you truly less affected by a nuisance liquor licensee (enough so that you have no right to speak up) if you're 4 floors up instead of 3?innov8ion wrote:Downtown2007 wrote:You must own a unit on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd floors in the Meridian, Elder Shirt, Lucas, or Bogen Lofts.C. No portion of a building shall be considered to be within the petition circle other than the main or surface floor of such building, the two floors immediately above the main or surface floor, and the floor immediately below the main or surface floor unless it is a condominium created under Chapter 448 RSMo. 2000 (as amended).
First, it's far from a given that the licenses will be pulled. I can imagine that the intent of limiting the protest circle domain to the first three floors is to protect residential interests. If you think about it, it's likely much easier to sustain a majority protest with the first three floors of a building instead of the entire building. Especially given the number of residents that live in these buildings that aren't owners.ben1040 wrote:Once these liquor licenses get yanked, maybe the next target is to fix this clause. Are you truly less affected by a nuisance liquor licensee (enough so that you have no right to speak up) if you're 4 floors up instead of 3?innov8ion wrote:Downtown2007 wrote:You must own a unit on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd floors in the Meridian, Elder Shirt, Lucas, or Bogen Lofts.C. No portion of a building shall be considered to be within the petition circle other than the main or surface floor of such building, the two floors immediately above the main or surface floor, and the floor immediately below the main or surface floor unless it is a condominium created under Chapter 448 RSMo. 2000 (as amended).
So the question is, what matters more to you? Your right to sign an official protest or the increased likelihood of that protest being sustained. Because if there is not a majority, then the Excise Commissioner's hands are pretty much tied.
Anyway, parking spaces are typically stated in each condo declaration as a limited common element. Elements of condominium units that are assigned to specific tenants, such as parking spaces, are still considered to be property of the condominium. So there doesn't appear to be a loophole as vollum suggests. But then again, I'm not a lawyer so who cares what I think?
Just my 2 cents.
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Sounds like Sugar and 15 are off the hook. For now.
Lure isn't so lucky: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... 78c22.html
Lure isn't so lucky: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... 78c22.html
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So does Lure and Sugar start behaving or do they operate business as usual? I wonder why 15 and Sugar were let off the hook while Lure has a hearing? I would assume it has to be due to the issues in the building.
It's quite disappointing that Sugar and 15 were let off the hook without the issue being formally addressed. Sugar is probably the worst one out of the 3.
It's quite disappointing that Sugar and 15 were let off the hook without the issue being formally addressed. Sugar is probably the worst one out of the 3.
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Maybe Sugar & 15 had a better attitude than Lure? I suspect they will be on a very short leash. One more f*ck up and they're done.Downtown2007 wrote:So does Lure and Sugar start behaving or do they operate business as usual? I wonder why 15 and Sugar were let off the hook while Lure has a hearing? I would assume it has to be due to the issues in the building.
It's quite disappointing that Sugar and 15 were let off the hook without the issue being formally addressed. Sugar is probably the worst one out of the 3.
What CS said. Plus I'm inclined to guess 15 and Sugar agreed to pay for X number of off-duty cops.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Maybe Sugar & 15 had a better attitude than Lure? I suspect they will be on a very short leash. One more f*ck up and they're done.Downtown2007 wrote:So does Lure and Sugar start behaving or do they operate business as usual? I wonder why 15 and Sugar were let off the hook while Lure has a hearing? I would assume it has to be due to the issues in the building.
It's quite disappointing that Sugar and 15 were let off the hook without the issue being formally addressed. Sugar is probably the worst one out of the 3.
Or the cynic in me wonders if some envelopes of cash changed hands and Lure's wasn't large enough.
The PD article happens to be balanced and I agree that safety must be maintained. Though I do wonder then why photos of drunk white or Asian patrons heckling women or crowding the sidewalks aren't featured on the Post Dispatch or posted on this blog? The African American male happens to be the symbol used to showcase criminal and disruptive behavior at this club. I object especially when those who seek Lure's closure now claim it happens on more nights than simply the one hip hop Thursday. Regardless of the Post Dispatch claiming downtown to be a "diverse environment with 12,000 residents (do they ever leave their loft and use sidewalks?)," the fact remains it to be more white and upper middle class than any other group. In fact the race and socioeconomic status of residents happens to be why we have such swift action. Showing African Americans as the image of public nuisance will bring arguments of stereotyping. Posting pictures of their cars, complaining about their clothes, or hand signals does the same. I've seen many excessively drunk, loud, and obnoxious polo-clad suburbanites and their drunk annoying plastic whore companions, but no one seems to capture them on the front page of the PD for shock value -- or b**** about them here -- in order to raise the alarm in St. Louis that we must act now. Though when too many black gun toting gangsters, and really they all are, come downtown we must put a cramp on that before it turns into Gaslight Square! Real or perceived fear of African Americans (or crime as you call it) is an effective message in this town. It also scares white people nationwide turning them against Obama's (gangster government) policy achievements. Victory as I am sure Lure will be closed very soon. Maybe shootings will stop -- or at least move a few blocks north! Like Central said then it's no longer a problem. Public safety will at least improve in the short term in one small area of our City. If other areas received such attention as downtown then we would see across the board reductions in crime.The problematic behaviors of the patrons and owners of Lure happen on all the nights the club is open, not just the nights featuring hip-hop music, and stretch far into the past.
I do respect though how organized your group has been even if I have concerns about message and broad outcomes.
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SHDD. Yawn.Doug wrote:The PD article happens to be balanced and I agree that safety must be maintained. Though I do wonder then why photos of drunk white or Asian patrons heckling women or crowding the sidewalks aren't featured on the Post Dispatch or posted on this blog? The African American male happens to be the symbol used to showcase criminal and disruptive behavior at this club. I object especially when those who seek Lure's closure now claim it happens on more nights than simply the one hip hop Thursday. Regardless of the Post Dispatch claiming downtown to be a "diverse environment with 12,000 residents (do they ever leave their loft and use sidewalks?)," the fact remains it to be more white and upper middle class than any other group. In fact the race and socioeconomic status of residents happens to be why we have such swift action. Showing African Americans as the image of public nuisance will bring arguments of stereotyping. Posting pictures of their cars, complaining about their clothes, or hand signals does the same. I've seen many excessively drunk, loud, and obnoxious polo-clad suburbanites and their drunk annoying plastic whore companions, but no one seems to capture them on the front page of the PD for shock value -- or b**** about them here -- in order to raise the alarm in St. Louis that we must act now. Though when too many black gun toting gangsters, and really they all are, come downtown we must put a cramp on that before it turns into Gaslight Square! Real or perceived fear of African Americans (or crime as you call it) is an effective message in this town. It also scares white people nationwide turning them against Obama's (gangster government) policy achievements. Victory as I am sure Lure will be closed very soon. Maybe shootings will stop -- or at least move a few blocks north! Like Central said then it's no longer a problem. Public safety will at least improve in the short term in one small area of our City. If other areas received such attention as downtown then we would see across the board reductions in crime.The problematic behaviors of the patrons and owners of Lure happen on all the nights the club is open, not just the nights featuring hip-hop music, and stretch far into the past.
I do respect though how organized your group has been even if I have concerns about message and broad outcomes.
just came from a walk down Washington avenue .seen a very nice dressed caucasian guy passed out in front of copia . do you think that would make the PD. 
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Why would it?loftman wrote:just came from a walk down Washington avenue .seen a very nice dressed caucasian guy passed out in front of copia . do you think that would make the PD.
did he pass out after shooting at the police? if so, it should absolutely be news.loftman wrote:just came from a walk down Washington avenue .seen a very nice dressed caucasian guy passed out in front of copia . do you think that would make the PD.
i'm curious what newspaper full of articles on sleeping vagrants you must normally read.
I think TCS must be a PD reader...The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Why would it?loftman wrote:just came from a walk down Washington avenue .seen a very nice dressed caucasian guy passed out in front of copia . do you think that would make the PD.
I dont understand why Lure or the other clubs just dont hire police officers?
My father-in-law's club routinely gets 400-800 people a night at his establishment (weekends) He hires 2 police officers and he has found that hiring those two officers at a premium, he only needs 1 "bouncer" at the entrance. He says it is one of the best investments he makes.
He has found that when you have big macho bouncers regulating the club, it actually provokes more fighting. When people are wasted, they don't care about going off on bouncers and causing a scene. However, when an officers is there, it is a totally different situation.
I guess Lure would rather hire 7 bouncers at $10 an hour thinking they get a better deal.
My father-in-law's club routinely gets 400-800 people a night at his establishment (weekends) He hires 2 police officers and he has found that hiring those two officers at a premium, he only needs 1 "bouncer" at the entrance. He says it is one of the best investments he makes.
He has found that when you have big macho bouncers regulating the club, it actually provokes more fighting. When people are wasted, they don't care about going off on bouncers and causing a scene. However, when an officers is there, it is a totally different situation.
I guess Lure would rather hire 7 bouncers at $10 an hour thinking they get a better deal.
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At least one person gets it.Nerfdude wrote:did he pass out after shooting at the police? if so, it should absolutely be news.loftman wrote:just came from a walk down Washington avenue .seen a very nice dressed caucasian guy passed out in front of copia . do you think that would make the PD.
i'm curious what newspaper full of articles on sleeping vagrants you must normally read.
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^^My guess is your father-in-law is ten times more responsible than the owner of Lure.
Responsible club owners would write off the lost business from the small percentage of neer do wells who would avoid a club where police officers are present. Based on his past behavior the owner of Lure does not fall into that category.
Responsible club owners would write off the lost business from the small percentage of neer do wells who would avoid a club where police officers are present. Based on his past behavior the owner of Lure does not fall into that category.
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I thought I read that Lure does hire off duty SLMPD officers.
The main question would be are they STILL in uniform.lukethedrifter wrote:I thought I read that Lure does hire off duty SLMPD officers.
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Police Officers who work secondary are allowed to wear their uniforms so the answer should be yes.zink wrote:The main question would be are they STILL in uniform.lukethedrifter wrote:I thought I read that Lure does hire off duty SLMPD officers.
Settle down with the race-baiting, Rob.loftman wrote:no actually you did not get it,my how fast the hoods come on.
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guy passed out on the sidewalk = guy shooting people on the sidewalkloftman wrote:no actually you did not get it,my how fast the hoods come on.
me = racist
got it
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Haha!innov8ion wrote: by Nerfdude » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:03 pm
loftman wrote:
no actually you did not get it,my how fast the hoods come on.
guy passed out on the sidewalk = guy shooting people on the sidewalk
me = racist
got it
I'm with you Nerfdude and CS. This has nothing to do with race it has to do with jerks shooting outside a few specific clubs.- 2,093
To be fair to loftman the photo in the Post Dispatch showing two African-Americans on Washington Street who were not engaging in any illegal behavior got quite a few racist responses on their website.
But that's STL Today. Their commenting section is full of, well, racists.
But that's STL Today. Their commenting section is full of, well, racists.
Sorry, but that's a logical fallacy. The views of an ignorant minority have nothing to do with the issues noted in the petition letter: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id ... EHvTjwBOngsouthsidepride wrote:To be fair to loftman the photo in the Post Dispatch showing two African-Americans on Washington Street who were not engaging in any illegal behavior got quite a few racist responses on their website.
Anything else is a mere distraction.