That does not change the fact that heating the outdoors is wasteful and polluting. It is ludicrous that people are trying to heat the open air. Period.
crbswiss wrote:That does not change the fact that heating the outdoors is wasteful and polluting. It is ludicrous that people are trying to heat the open air. Period.
But decadence is so romantic!
I think we can back up quite a bit by considering that the mushroom patio heater has come on the St. Louis scene at select venues only recently. I remember seeing them on patios at restaurants in Atlanta and Nashville some 16 years ago.
Sidewalk dining has only been ALLOWED in St. Louis in like the past 10 years? Street musicians yet??
There are lots of good ideas yet out there.
Sidewalk dining has only been ALLOWED in St. Louis in like the past 10 years? Street musicians yet??
There are lots of good ideas yet out there.
Seriously. Buy a jacket, order an Irish coffee, and deal with the temperature.
Chicago Tribune, 2006 wrote:SUMMER CAFES, BY THE NUMBERS
1 December, (bold added) the day Chicago's 2006 sidewalk cafe season ends, changed from 2005's season-ender of Nov. 1
5 sidewalk cafe permits issued by Memorial Day 1985, the first year Chicago allowed them
440 sidewalk cafe permits issued by the city in 2000
537 sidewalk cafe permits issued by the city by Memorial Day 2005
728 sidewalk cafe permits issued by the city by Memorial Day 2006
123 days May 1-Aug. 31
41 average days May 1-Aug. 31 in the Chicago area with precipitation greater than 100th of an inch
I also found news-story references to use of outdoor heaters in San Fran, Toronto, Vancouver and even Glasgow. Hey, those places have much less vibrant nightlife scenes than St. Louis, no? Why should we possibly try to emulate them?
Naw, just buy a coat and sit outside in the cold and drink a hot toddy. We're St. Louisans. We're tough!
Street musicians are "legal" in the city with the purchase of a $25.00 license from the street department good until the first of the year. Even with the license, however, there are zones that are off limits; aka Arch grounds, within the four streets that bound Busch, the Old Courthouse, basically anything government.
I had one of these licenses each year from 2000-2004 and was never asked to present it. In 2005 I skipped buying it without consequence. In writing the agreement says you will display it, but I was passed by cops frequently that never even checked.
If these renderings come to fruition, to me it really adds substance to putting a street car/trolley line from the Dome/Casino/Landing down to Soulard. There would quality stops all the way down.
I had one of these licenses each year from 2000-2004 and was never asked to present it. In 2005 I skipped buying it without consequence. In writing the agreement says you will display it, but I was passed by cops frequently that never even checked.
If these renderings come to fruition, to me it really adds substance to putting a street car/trolley line from the Dome/Casino/Landing down to Soulard. There would quality stops all the way down.
crbswiss wrote:That does not change the fact that heating the outdoors is wasteful and polluting. It is ludicrous that people are trying to heat the open air. Period.
Yeah, who are these humans to think that they can mold nature to their own satisfaction!? They also build roofs and walls with materials obtained from nature to keep out the elements. All so they can live more comfortably! This must be stopped!
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Bastiat wrote:crbswiss wrote:That does not change the fact that heating the outdoors is wasteful and polluting. It is ludicrous that people are trying to heat the open air. Period.
Yeah, who are these humans to think that they can mold nature to their own satisfaction!? They also build roofs and walls with materials obtained from nature to keep out the elements. All so they can live more comfortably! This must be stopped!
Awesome post! Tree-huggers and PETA peolple make me laugh
I would think that building a house, and heating the outdoors are two completely different things.
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^ only to a degree. I'm all in favor of the heaters - if a restuarant can heat the outdoors and still pay its bills because customers still come, then great.
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Any updates on this project? The website mentions the Lombard Lofts but there's really no indication as to whether the residential options will be for sale or lease. Just wondering...I think it would be ideal to have both options.
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"Awesome post! Tree-huggers and PETA peolple make me laugh"
A) building a house (i.e. 4 walls and a roof) is not comparable to running a heater outdoors.
B) the post wasn't that awesome.
C) labeling someone a "Tree-hugger" or a "PETA person" because they care about an environmental issue is meaningless (not to mention tired) and demonstrates either a lack of civility, a lack of sophistication, or both.
A) building a house (i.e. 4 walls and a roof) is not comparable to running a heater outdoors.
B) the post wasn't that awesome.
C) labeling someone a "Tree-hugger" or a "PETA person" because they care about an environmental issue is meaningless (not to mention tired) and demonstrates either a lack of civility, a lack of sophistication, or both.
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urban_dilettante wrote:"Awesome post! Tree-huggers and PETA peolple make me laugh"
A) building a house (i.e. 4 walls and a roof) is not comparable to running a heater outdoors.
B) the post wasn't that awesome.
C) labeling someone a "Tree-hugger" or a "PETA person" because they care about an environmental issue is meaningless (not to mention tired) and demonstrates either a lack of civility, a lack of sophistication, or both.
And thank you for saving me a long-winded post.
Update from Chivvis:
The owner of The Firehouse Bar, located at 314 State Street in downtown Alton, IL, signed a lease in June 2007 to open a sports-themed bar and grill at 756 Historic Fourth Street in Chouteau's Landing.
While the Alton destination is a converted firehouse, owner Dustin Snyders drew on the cult-film classic, Caddyshack, in naming his latest venture Bushwoods. The 3,250-square-foot bar and grill is scheduled to include a 2,500-square-foot outdoor beer garden.
Construction and renovations to 756 Historic Fourth Street, located just behind Broadway Oyster Bar, are already underway. Snyders intends to be open for business in early 2008.
The owner of The Firehouse Bar, located at 314 State Street in downtown Alton, IL, signed a lease in June 2007 to open a sports-themed bar and grill at 756 Historic Fourth Street in Chouteau's Landing.
While the Alton destination is a converted firehouse, owner Dustin Snyders drew on the cult-film classic, Caddyshack, in naming his latest venture Bushwoods. The 3,250-square-foot bar and grill is scheduled to include a 2,500-square-foot outdoor beer garden.
Construction and renovations to 756 Historic Fourth Street, located just behind Broadway Oyster Bar, are already underway. Snyders intends to be open for business in early 2008.
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Does anyone know what they plan to do with the riverfront itself? From the renderings it looks like there is greenspace along the river, which would be very welcomed, but do they plan to leave the floodwall up? What about Sullivan? It looks in the renderings as if the greenspace will cut off this road? Also, does anyone know about the regulation of container barges parking on the side of the river? It would be nice if we could limit the container barges from parking for 1 mile north and 1 mile south along the river.
This is a great way to make Saint Louis look more attractive as people are coming in from the PSB, which is how I assume most tourists enter our city. Right now, it is an ugly, ugly sight to the south. Hopefully this can at least put a little green in that view.
This is a great way to make Saint Louis look more attractive as people are coming in from the PSB, which is how I assume most tourists enter our city. Right now, it is an ugly, ugly sight to the south. Hopefully this can at least put a little green in that view.
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Little Egyptian wrote:Does anyone know what they plan to do with the riverfront itself? From the renderings it looks like there is greenspace along the river, which would be very welcomed, but do they plan to leave the floodwall up? What about Sullivan? It looks in the renderings as if the greenspace will cut off this road? Also, does anyone know about the regulation of container barges parking on the side of the river? It would be nice if we could limit the container barges from parking for 1 mile north and 1 mile south along the river.
This is a great way to make Saint Louis look more attractive as people are coming in from the PSB, which is how I assume most tourists enter our city. Right now, it is an ugly, ugly sight to the south. Hopefully this can at least put a little green in that view.
If they would want to make greenspace south of the PSB, they would have to buy out the people who own the mooring rights.
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They will not be taking down the flood walls along this stretch of the river. I remember driving along the dry side of the Chouteau's Landing floodwall during 93 and having the distinctly odd feeling of looking up and seeing a tow boat and barge towering over me from the river side of the wall. If that had given way I was told that the river would have risen through portions of Soulard east of 9th.
southcitygent wrote:They will not be taking down the flood walls along this stretch of the river. I remember driving along the dry side of the Chouteau's Landing floodwall during 93 and having the distinctly odd feeling of looking up and seeing a tow boat and barge towering over me from the river side of the wall. If that had given way I was told that the river would have risen through portions of Soulard east of 9th.
Given the state of our nation's infrastructure, that's kind of alarming. Time to call the insurance co.
southcitygent wrote:They will not be taking down the flood walls along this stretch of the river. I remember driving along the dry side of the Chouteau's Landing floodwall during 93 and having the distinctly odd feeling of looking up and seeing a tow boat and barge towering over me from the river side of the wall. If that had given way I was told that the river would have risen through portions of Soulard east of 9th.
Can tehy "build up" to the top of the flood wall, so it's more of a drop off than an actual wall?
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So Bushwoods is going in, which is great, but has this project otherwise stalled out? It doesn't seem like any work is being done over there, and the backsides of the buildings now sport some major grafiti.
Riley's Flowers will be moving from the old Hardee's to 904 S. Fourth Street:
http://www.chouteauslanding.com/availab ... ures/6.pdf
http://www.chouteauslanding.com/availab ... ures/6.pdf