Wow! I wasn't expecting this.
I hope (sincerely, not just being a curmudgeon) that the developers of the large new construction projects all recognize the need to invest serious resources into marketing.
I believe the Pyramid's early efforts targeting advertising (through cable TV in particular) to West County helped drive the turnaround in perception of Downtown. Considering how many people we all run into who think there's only one loft building (and that it's right next to the zoo, since they're both "downtown"), there's still a lot of the market that needs to hear new stories.
I believe the Pyramid's early efforts targeting advertising (through cable TV in particular) to West County helped drive the turnaround in perception of Downtown. Considering how many people we all run into who think there's only one loft building (and that it's right next to the zoo, since they're both "downtown"), there's still a lot of the market that needs to hear new stories.
I would put considerable effort into marketing this and other projects DT to fans that attend baseball games at Bush (and football/hockey, etc.). Most of these folks don't live DT but can easily witness the renaissance first hand by talking a stroll before or after the game.
sometimes I worry that a significant market for all this high-end residential downtown is going to be rich folks who buy a place just to have somewhere to crash after the game, but don't stay there the rest of the time, offering little contribution to the businesses and street life in the area.
Maybe not skeptical about everything, but about some things yes.
Downtown has gotten everything it could ask for. Right now three major projects that would add retail, residential, office, and hotel to the area are in various stages of planning. The question is, will all three come to fruition? Fortunately, because of all three, no one project is viewed as the savior and burdened with unrealistic expectations. But, at the same time all three are going after the same market: folks who want new construction, high-rise living, and to live downtown. It is a valid question whether all three will be successful. I hope that all three are successful, because if they are downtown will truly become a neighborhood and 24 hour district. So lets take a moment to consider all three:
The Ballpark Village has the greatest likely hood of success given the ballpark views from the residences, its central location in downtown, and close proximity to metrolink. While more will not be known about the project until after the stadium is complete, it appears that plans are solidified and that marketability should not be a problem. Additionally, this project, in later stages may include a coveted new office tower for downtown.
The Bottle District has been billed for the past year as the premier new development. It is clearly located farther from the heart of downtown, though it is close to the dome and landing, making its future as an entertainment district more likely. Few concrete plans have been developed and some speculate the financing has been difficult to come by. Yet, the most recent news for the site is positive, indicating that perhaps past concerns have been addressed and the first stage of the project will move forward by October of this year.
Just released, few hard facts are known about the Chouteau?s Landing district and its $300 million price tag. While future plans for the whole district and ambitious and unknown, the location and phasing of the project are positives. The first stage, redevelopment of vacant structures along Broadway has already been begun, proving that the development is at least starting. Additionally, this project is located between the new ballpark and the already successful Soulard neighborhood, giving it a prime location.
Taking these three short views of the projects together, I think the likely scenario is that The BV is fully built out, the Chouteau?s Landing moves forward and may well get done if designed well and the downtown residential market is deep. The BD once again is facing more competition for prospective tenants and may ultimately be no more than an entertainment district for tourists and convention goers with the residential component never fully built out. To me the ultimate question to ask is if you were to live in one of the three new districts, rank orders them on your preference of living. The BD is nice and all, but I have a feeling many would choose the BV and CL over the BD, which is the real reason I wonder if it will ever succeed. Hope I am wrong, as all three could provide more than 3,000 new residents in and around downtown, but I just don?t see all three happening. And in that race the BD is the big looser.
Downtown has gotten everything it could ask for. Right now three major projects that would add retail, residential, office, and hotel to the area are in various stages of planning. The question is, will all three come to fruition? Fortunately, because of all three, no one project is viewed as the savior and burdened with unrealistic expectations. But, at the same time all three are going after the same market: folks who want new construction, high-rise living, and to live downtown. It is a valid question whether all three will be successful. I hope that all three are successful, because if they are downtown will truly become a neighborhood and 24 hour district. So lets take a moment to consider all three:
The Ballpark Village has the greatest likely hood of success given the ballpark views from the residences, its central location in downtown, and close proximity to metrolink. While more will not be known about the project until after the stadium is complete, it appears that plans are solidified and that marketability should not be a problem. Additionally, this project, in later stages may include a coveted new office tower for downtown.
The Bottle District has been billed for the past year as the premier new development. It is clearly located farther from the heart of downtown, though it is close to the dome and landing, making its future as an entertainment district more likely. Few concrete plans have been developed and some speculate the financing has been difficult to come by. Yet, the most recent news for the site is positive, indicating that perhaps past concerns have been addressed and the first stage of the project will move forward by October of this year.
Just released, few hard facts are known about the Chouteau?s Landing district and its $300 million price tag. While future plans for the whole district and ambitious and unknown, the location and phasing of the project are positives. The first stage, redevelopment of vacant structures along Broadway has already been begun, proving that the development is at least starting. Additionally, this project is located between the new ballpark and the already successful Soulard neighborhood, giving it a prime location.
Taking these three short views of the projects together, I think the likely scenario is that The BV is fully built out, the Chouteau?s Landing moves forward and may well get done if designed well and the downtown residential market is deep. The BD once again is facing more competition for prospective tenants and may ultimately be no more than an entertainment district for tourists and convention goers with the residential component never fully built out. To me the ultimate question to ask is if you were to live in one of the three new districts, rank orders them on your preference of living. The BD is nice and all, but I have a feeling many would choose the BV and CL over the BD, which is the real reason I wonder if it will ever succeed. Hope I am wrong, as all three could provide more than 3,000 new residents in and around downtown, but I just don?t see all three happening. And in that race the BD is the big looser.
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While it's nice to see them redeveloping some buildings. I question why they had to tear down the building at the NE corner of 4th and Chouteau(it's actually still in this aerial). Also, there is a lot of green space, too much if you ask me. There needs to be some buildings connecting the areas between the railroad tracks. There are currently buildings on the north side of the railroad on Lombard. Hopefully, the buildings that are being torn down for some of the residential aren't significant.
Site plan From kmov.com
Site plan From kmov.com
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The barge on the very right hand side of that photo is owned by a friend of mine. At any given time he may have 4-6 barges tied up here. I'm wondering if he will still be able to keep his mooring rights? I suspect people buying in those river front towers won't want to look at what is, essentially, a floating junk yard.
Got off a little early from work today, and drove around the site. Its quite evident to me now how significant this project is, especially the water front residential. This project is huge!
Just cause its not literally posted here:
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I hope the condos wouldn't turn out to be idetntical designs, but that's clearly an early rendering. (I also hope they aren't bright red
) But imagine the views of the arch / downtown!
Another point: If the southside line ever gets put together, isn't it supposed to run down Choteau for a bit? Might be relatively easy access.
I hope the condos wouldn't turn out to be idetntical designs, but that's clearly an early rendering. (I also hope they aren't bright red
) But imagine the views of the arch / downtown!Another point: If the southside line ever gets put together, isn't it supposed to run down Choteau for a bit? Might be relatively easy access.
I don't know, I kind of like the idea of a purple hotel. 
Good post by JMed...This project does project itself higher for the time being over BD.
And these are all very preliminary renderings, but it does get the excitement going for what downtown could look like in the future.
And, just to pimp myself a little bit:
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:29 pm
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:37 pm
Finally, the last (but best) one: http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?p=7633#7633
It involves pictures, so it's easier to link to the post.
Good post by JMed...This project does project itself higher for the time being over BD.
And these are all very preliminary renderings, but it does get the excitement going for what downtown could look like in the future.
And, just to pimp myself a little bit:
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:29 pm
Chouteaus Landing.
The Landing South, a more family friendly Landing area within walking distance of the new ballpark.
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:37 pm
My number one project is something that I've whipped up in my mind, along with the Chouteau Lake Greenway. This project is similar to what they have discussed for the Greenway, but it's expanded along with some ideas that I've had, and posted before. The space will occupy along Chouteau from the River to Forest Park. I like the idea of a marina, but that would interfere with the revamping of Chouteaus Landing as an entertainment district. Some of the warehouses down there could be revamped into an awesome district. Along with new construction along the river for some residential highrises. So maybe install a marina a little further south of Chouteau. I also want an outdoor river chute for kiyaking places somewhere in this area.
Finally, the last (but best) one: http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?p=7633#7633
It involves pictures, so it's easier to link to the post.
I'll say it again: If St. Louis is going to hope to connect downtown to the south, it had better make the underpasses attractive enough for people to wish to "pass under" them. This is probably a great opportunity to do so.
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Maybe I'm way off but I think I've seen these renderings before ... weren't these part of the "grand rendering" put out in support of the choteau lake project?
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I agree that we are extremely fortunate to have three major projects
to worry about...time was when any of these would have been a
Godsend...anyway, as long as they don't duplicate attractions to the
point of redundancy, I think it will work. I have always wanted an
aquarium like the one in Atlanta which I believe HOK BUILT FOR THAT
CITY!(My least favorite major city where I learned painful life lessons)
It seems to me that given our revitalized spirit (CAN DO!) it's better
to try and fail than not try at all as was the mindset here for so long.
The discussions would turn negative and there was not enough of a
unified dialogue/civic spirit to make it happen.Friends who have
moved away to Dallas and San Francisco and Denver cannot quite
understand how/why we are in such a renaissance ...but seeing is
believing and we are the SHOW ME STATE!
to worry about...time was when any of these would have been a
Godsend...anyway, as long as they don't duplicate attractions to the
point of redundancy, I think it will work. I have always wanted an
aquarium like the one in Atlanta which I believe HOK BUILT FOR THAT
CITY!(My least favorite major city where I learned painful life lessons)
It seems to me that given our revitalized spirit (CAN DO!) it's better
to try and fail than not try at all as was the mindset here for so long.
The discussions would turn negative and there was not enough of a
unified dialogue/civic spirit to make it happen.Friends who have
moved away to Dallas and San Francisco and Denver cannot quite
understand how/why we are in such a renaissance ...but seeing is
believing and we are the SHOW ME STATE!
Sorry Don. I disagree about the aquarium. while i'm sure it would be a great addition to downtown. this was YESTERYEARS solution for downtowns.. Doesn't Chattanooga TN have one of the biggest aqarium's? This is kind of dated, if you ask me.. and most cities are losing money on them...
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JCity wrote:Sorry Don. I disagree about the aquarium. while i'm sure it would be a great addition to downtown. this was YESTERYEARS solution for downtowns.. Doesn't Chattanooga TN have one of the biggest aqarium's? This is kind of dated, if you ask me.. and most cities are losing money on them...
I really can't imagine why anyone would not want an aquarium downtown. Is it the money issue? If so, then you might as well close down the Zoo, the Art Museum, the History Museum, and most likely The Garden too. None of them make money (not sure about the Garden, but I would doubt it).
new signs of life... chouteauslanding.com you can get on the email list for updates
You can see the progress on a lot of the smaller historic buildings that front the street as you drive down Broadway and farther away on 3rd street (I'm guessing it is "8" on the rendering). Looks like these should be done at least by opening day next season if not sooner. This area has a LOT of potential...
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While at the Cardinal game the other day, I noticed that there was new construction as well as a rehab of a historic structure right across from the art of living building near the Purina Campus. Anyone know what's happening here?
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I was wonderign about that building too ... its really cool building
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appraisalman wrote:While at the Cardinal game the other day, I noticed that there was new construction as well as a rehab of a historic structure right across from the art of living building near the Purina Campus. Anyone know what's happening here?
That building was an old bar that is being renovated into a new bar and two-story music venue. There will also be a patio area that runs along Hickory Street that will have numerous french style doors that open up to the inside. I know the developers well as they also did the Art of Living Building which is where I work. If anyone has seen the inside of that building you can be rest assured that the new bar and music venue will be top notch. In fact, I'll say it may just blow you away upon completion.
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Sounds Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product.
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This thread has some a picture of what it looked like after the partial collapse. I saw it last week, it is looking great now.
http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=1606
edit: It is the Art of Living Building thread
http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=1606
edit: It is the Art of Living Building thread
