urbanSTL

^  Yes on revenue model discussion because when you talk pre fab housing and space needs i find companies like boxabl which believe has a facility in Las Vegas.   The thing that stuck out when watching their youtube videos and thinking of this thread is that they are essentially utilizing spec anywhere in the US warehouse space.   So see two things driving their cost, labor and a lot of cheap warehouse floor space.   So I don't see this development offering anything unique and our maybe not even at competitive price point say a Metro East mega warehouse.   

However, I think it is really about having a company call home as a corp HQ and or the developers to start their own company.   Preferable the latter as I don't really see prefab companies being heavy in admin and or design/engineering nor I do see a prefab tells itself that wow this is a really cool space & we need to be here.    Just trying to understand the revenue model from the armchair/what i see when searching info vs the renderings..   

Now if it could say land a large contractor HQ like McCarthy, Alberici or even Clayco (which i believe already committed to other space) with their larger admin, engineering & estimating staffs to move in the city.  Wishfull thinking but St Louis punches above its weight with Large General Contractors calling St Louis home or have significant presence.   

Without a major anchor tenant I just don't see this getting off the ground either. Its pretty isolated as is. I'm pretty confident in the Millenium hotel project and even BPV finally getting its latter phases but I just feel this project is almost too niche in its concept. 

dredger wrote: ↑

Apr 30, 2025

^  Yes on revenue model discussion because when you talk pre fab housing and space needs i find companies like boxabl which believe has a facility in Las Vegas.   The thing that stuck out when watching their youtube videos and thinking of this thread is that they are essentially utilizing spec anywhere in the US warehouse space.   So see two things driving their cost, labor and a lot of cheap warehouse floor space.   So I don't see this development offering anything unique and our maybe not even at competitive price point say a Metro East mega warehouse.   

However, I think it is really about having a company call home as a corp HQ and or the developers to start their own company.   Preferable the latter as I don't really see prefab companies being heavy in admin and or design/engineering nor I do see a prefab tells itself that wow this is a really cool space & we need to be here.    Just trying to understand the revenue model from the armchair/what i see when searching info vs the renderings..   

Now if it could say land a large contractor HQ like McCarthy, Alberici or even Clayco (which i believe already committed to other space) with their larger admin, engineering & estimating staffs to move in the city.  Wishfull thinking but St Louis punches above its weight with Large General Contractors calling St Louis home or have significant presence.   

Alberici is firmly planted at Page & 170 with their Leed Certified building & campus. That campus was originally supposed to be built on the old Arena site (early 2000's) but that fell through for whatever reason. Clayco moved to the old Express Scripts site recently. McCarthy moved into a new office building near Manchester & 270. Arco has offices near Tropicana Lanes & 40 & Hanley. They seem to have grown their real estate footprint lately. Likely due to their growth in recent years. Not sure about some of the other big companies in town such as Paric (Westport) Brinkman (Chesterfield), etc. With so many big contractors, it would be nice to land one of them for sure. 

Suburban Sprawl wrote: ↑

Apr 30, 2025

Without a major anchor tenant I just don't see this getting off the ground either. Its pretty isolated as is. I'm pretty confident in the Millenium hotel project and even BPV finally getting its latter phases but I just feel this project is almost too niche in its concept. 

Crunden Martin is 100% happening. More to come.

Do you know something that the rest of us don't? 

I remain hopeful, but, mentally, I have to admit that I've been preparing for the possibility that this project is essentially Bottle District 2: South of the Arch. 

It's been almost three years since this went public and still no building permits.

A lot of moving pieces.  More so than most development projects.  A straight forward project of scale is going to take years.  I think with a little patience we will see this one happen.  I have heard it's pretty close.  

STLAPTS wrote: ↑

May 05, 2025

A lot of moving pieces.  More so than most development projects.  A straight forward project of scale is going to take years.  I think with a little patience we will see this one happen.  I have heard it's pretty close.  

Do you know if there’s been any recent permit activity or demo work down there? I know some guys mentioned seeing survey crews last month, but I haven’t caught anything official

RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑

May 01, 2025

Do you know something that the rest of us don't? 

I remain hopeful, but, mentally, I have to admit that I've been preparing for the possibility that this project is essentially Bottle District 2: South of the Arch. 

Don't give up on this one just yet.

Hear me out, you put the info in an envelope, tape it to a bench at Kiener and I’ll take care of the rest.

STLAPTS wrote: ↑

May 05, 2025

A lot of moving pieces.  More so than most development projects.  A straight forward project of scale is going to take years.  I think with a little patience we will see this one happen.  I have heard it's pretty close.  

Rare time that I agree with STLAPTS, but I agree. From everything I've read about this project over the years, it's far more complicated than the average big development, even something like Millennium or AT&T is probably more straightforward.

I'm pretty sure they were already signing contracts with companies who wanted to use it and some Canadian company already moved to St. Louis in preparation for it. Could be wrong though.

Regardless, I am on the side of its still probably gonna happen even if it's delayed.

addxb2 wrote:This is the most detailed site plan I have seen to date. Apologies if posted above. 
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/Gateway ... /33547823/


Gateway-South-Industrial-Core-Redevelopment-Saint-Louis-MO-Building-Photo-5-LargeHighDefinition.png

Since late October, the conceptual plan has been updated.
- About 40k sqft less than October.
- Chouteau & 2nd is now a parking lot
- Northern lot between 1st and LKS is now parking.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So...not ideal, but more feasible to get going?

The riverfront parcels are on the market as a separate development opportunity. I'm trying to find a glimmer of optimism for this project but it's been a while since the last meaningful update. A confident vision that doesn't include the two most crucial (river, arch, district) lots? Not convinced and a little worried. 
https://www.cbre.com/properties/propert ... s-mo-63102

Currently publicly listed are the 500,000 sqft Crunden Martin and these lots. Everything south of Chouteau is not being marketed and has been removed from Loopnet. 

I heard they lost their anchor tenant but have had luck with leasing a few smaller buildings within the development and that those smaller buildings are moving forward.  

Yea officially worried. Was gonna be the most important development since the Bottle District. Now looking doubtful once again

https://www.aia-stlouis.org/events/EventDetails.aspx?id=1942886&group=

9/10 - CEO of Good Developments to speak about Gateway South. 

First Building Moves Forward at Gateway South: 54,000 SF Spec Industrial Project Announced

https://constructforstl.org/first-build ... announced/

Hooray for industrial spec space an expanded capacity for the self storage yard. Just what the area needs while the Crunden Martin complex continues to crumble

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Nov 07, 2025

Hooray for industrial spec space an expanded capacity for the self storage yard. Just what the area needs while the Crunden Martin complex continues to crumble

Yeah, it is curious indeed. Considering the developers said several times phase 1 would involve rehab of Crunden Martin...that's a developers words for ya though. Always overpromising.

For real.  Thrilled there's some news/movement here, but then when are the rehabs happening?  Hopefully, more news on that follows soon.

I won’t go as far to say that this was a Trojan Horse but this area becoming spec industrial is well short of everything promised to receive incentives.

Time to let go of construction innovation idea and say hello to distribution centers which will bring hundreds of large vehicles into the core.