Ferguson and St. Louis protests discussion thread

Northside Neighbor · PostDec 15, 2014#5762014-12-15T21:13+00:00

With 99+ percent of cops investigated by grand juries not indicted, and with hundreds of thousands of Americans protesting against police brutality, especially against young AA men, it begs the question, why? What went wrong?

Could it be that we are being distracted from the real problem? Not that there isn't an issue with uneven policing between blacks and non-blacks, but rather, could rises in police brutality/militarized police tactics instead be a result of our declining middle class?

With more people struggling to make ends meet, is it possible there is a rising desperation in society, resulting in more crime and social challenges overall, resulting in increasing #s of altercations between police and citizens?

Young blacks might be the proverbial "canaries in the mine shaft", but perhaps the cops and the overall establishment has it in for the rest of us?

Ebsy · PostDec 16, 2014#5772014-12-16T01:50+00:00

There has not been a corresponding rise in crime though, for the most part. As I understand it, crime has been trending downwards for at least a decade.

Northside Neighbor · PostDec 16, 2014#5782014-12-16T02:00+00:00

Is prison population going down over the same time period?

dbInSouthCity · PostDec 16, 2014#5792014-12-16T13:32+00:00

Ebsy wrote:There has not been a corresponding rise in crime though, for the most part. As I understand it, crime has been trending downwards for at least a decade.

depends how much you break it down...sure our crime index rate is cut in half from early 90s but the crown jewel of crime and the one that gets the top billing on nightly news shows is homicides and the rate for that has pretty much stayed the same since the 70s i think its going to be 40 per 100,000 this year...it was 40 in 1997, 39 in 1989, 42 in 1978..... its been as high as 65 in some years and as low as 25 in others but the average is around 40 and no real clear downward trend.

roger wyoming II · PostDec 16, 2014#5802014-12-16T14:05+00:00

^ It most likely will be in the 45-50 range for 2014 which may give us the homicide capital title for large cities.... for the past 6 months we've been around 60. I believe the teen girl killed in Dutchtown yesterday afternoon may have been the 150th person murdered this year.

Somehow we "only" had 74 homicides in 2003 with a rate in the 20s but even that is high when compared to most other large cities.

MarkHaversham · PostDec 16, 2014#5812014-12-16T16:22+00:00

Homicides are so rare even in relatively unsafe cities that it's very difficult to measure trends. A year just isn't a credible sample size in any first-world city.

Ebsy · PostDec 16, 2014#5822014-12-16T19:39+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote:
Ebsy wrote:There has not been a corresponding rise in crime though, for the most part. As I understand it, crime has been trending downwards for at least a decade.
depends how much you break it down...sure our crime index rate is cut in half from early 90s but the crown jewel of crime and the one that gets the top billing on nightly news shows is homicides and the rate for that has pretty much stayed the same since the 70s i think its going to be 40 per 100,000 this year...it was 40 in 1997, 39 in 1989, 42 in 1978..... its been as high as 65 in some years and as low as 25 in others but the average is around 40 and no real clear downward trend.

But should we be focusing on what the media wants us to focus on in order to sell papers, so to speak? There are no media reports on the burglary that didn't happen because home invasions are down. Also, if you watched local news for the past few weeks, you would think there was a race war between blacks and Bosnians, where in fact there has not been a single confirmed hate crime, other than of course the lady that filed a false report claiming she had been the victim of a hate crime.

southsidepride · PostDec 24, 2014#5832014-12-24T15:11+00:00

I really wish this moron last night in Berkeley pulled his gun on another criminal instead of a cop so we wouldn't have to hear about it today.

jcity · PostDec 26, 2014#5842014-12-26T01:39+00:00

I agree. It's beyond ridiculous there are even "protests" about this case. This guy is a career criminal that pulls a gun on a cop... What do people expect to happen? Do they think we should even have a police force? Berkeley is majority black, black mayor, majority black Police dept. there have been 150 murders in the city, possibly more, why aren't people protesting these? Cases like Garner's have merit. The message of aggressive policing and wrong killings by police like garner are going to get drowned if people protest legitimate police shootings.

MarkHaversham · PostDec 26, 2014#5852014-12-26T21:18+00:00

There's a group of people that simply don't believe anything the police say. It's hard to completely dismiss the merits of that attitude, given what apparently passes for typical police behavior nowadays. It's a shame that good police get tarred with the same brush, but it's also sort of inevitable.

moorlander · PostJan 20, 2015#5862015-01-20T13:13+00:00

The money man behind Ferguson?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... medium=RSS

sirshankalot · PostJan 20, 2015#5872015-01-20T14:30+00:00

This is an absolutle must-read regarding the Ferguson protesters:

http://therealbigsol.blogspot.com/2015/ ... s.html?m=1

MarkHaversham · PostJan 20, 2015#5882015-01-20T14:37+00:00

moorlander wrote:The money man behind Ferguson?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... medium=RSS

Washington Times and George Soros are two of the terms on my right-wing hysteria bingo card, so I'm going to get too excited about this article without corroborating evidence.

leeharveyawesome · PostJan 20, 2015#5892015-01-20T17:58+00:00

MarkHaversham wrote:
moorlander wrote:The money man behind Ferguson?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... medium=RSS
Washington Times and George Soros are two of the terms on my right-wing hysteria bingo card, so I'm going to get too excited about this article without corroborating evidence.

I'm going to yell BINGO when George Soros dies.

quincunx · PostApr 28, 2015#5902015-04-28T18:49+00:00

The fiscal challenges Ferguson faces are insurmountable in my opinion.

The Atlantic - Ferguson's Fortune 500 Company

Why the Missouri city—despite hosting a multinational corporation—relied on municipal fees and fines to extract revenue from its poorest residents

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ny/390492/

southsidepride · PostApr 28, 2015#5912015-04-28T20:43+00:00

leeharveyawesome wrote:
MarkHaversham wrote:
moorlander wrote:The money man behind Ferguson?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... medium=RSS
Washington Times and George Soros are two of the terms on my right-wing hysteria bingo card, so I'm going to get too excited about this article without corroborating evidence.
I'm going to yell BINGO when George Soros dies.

Someone has to equal out your buddies the Koch Brothers.

threeonefour · PostMay 01, 2015#5922015-05-01T18:38+00:00

southsidepride wrote:
leeharveyawesome wrote: I'm going to yell BINGO when George Soros dies.
Someone has to equal out your buddies the Koch Brothers.

Feel free to fill us in on all of the evil things the Koch Brothers have done if you wish, as I am not about to defend them in any way, but I don't think anyone can compete with Soros.

MarkHaversham · PostMay 01, 2015#5932015-05-01T19:08+00:00

Yeah, nothing the Kochs do can compare to the high crime of advocating higher taxes on the rich.

southsidepride · PostMay 01, 2015#5942015-05-01T22:36+00:00

Mark how dare you call them rich. They are "job creators".
It's so amusing that right wingers who always b**** about P C terms have no problem with PC euphemisms for their wealthy betters

Ebsy · PostMay 02, 2015#5952015-05-02T00:07+00:00

Law enforcement itself is a euphemism for the coppers. It makes it sound much more professional than it actually probably is.

quincunx · PostAug 03, 2015#5962015-08-03T18:05+00:00

Stl Public Radio - Ferguson's yesterdays offer clues to the troubled city of today

The photo is an iconic image of post-World War II America: A bustling downtown main street lined with sturdy Chevys, Fords and Chryslers. Pedestrians strolling past a hodgepodge of storefronts with flashy light-up signs: Barbays Self-Service Market, King Drugs, Florsheim shoes, Coca Cola.

This was Ferguson, Mo., in the late 1950s, just past the midpoint of its 120-year history.

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/fer ... city-today

PostAug 06, 2015#5972015-08-06T17:44+00:00

Fragmentation + auto-only places = poor municipal gov'ts and misery for many

CNNMoney - One year later: Ferguson is still pumping out arrest warrants

In Ferguson, resident Veronica Ortega is one of the many people who would be helped by a clean slate. Ortega currently lives in constant fear of arrest, all because of an old car that used to be parked in her driveway. Three years ago, after moving to Ferguson from Brooklyn, New York, Ortega bought a used car for $500 so she could learn to drive. But shortly after bringing it home, she got a warning notice and then a ticket for having a "derelict vehicle."

Though such vehicles are viewed as eyesores for the community, Ortega says the car looked perfectly fine and "wasn't bothering anyone," even though it needed repairs. She couldn't afford the $102 fine, and she says an arrest warrant was issued when she missed the payment deadline.

Hoping to get rid of the ticket once and for all, Ortega went to the court on an amnesty day last year when people with warrants could come forward without being arrested. Because she couldn't afford the fine, she asked to make a small payment toward what she owed but says the judge refused.

"Anyone else would see that [arrest warrant] and think I'm a felon," she said. "But I'm not a felon -- it's all over a car."

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/06/news/fe ... index.html

PostAug 06, 2015#5982015-08-06T17:46+00:00

Stl Public Radio - Lessons in leadership from Ferguson: Communicate, educate, serve

A year after Michael Brown’s death in Ferguson and the unrest that ensued, many of the major political players continue to reassess, reappraise and reflect.

U.S. Rep. William Lacy Clay, D-University City, says the turmoil “has really shown a bright light on the staggering divisions we still need to address in this country. And most of that stems from our inability to have an honest, painful conversation about race.”

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/les ... cate-serve

shimmy · PostAug 07, 2015#5992015-08-07T16:33+00:00

Anybody read the New Yorker article and have thoughts on it? A lengthy but captivating read.

ajwillikers · PostAug 09, 2015#6002015-08-09T13:58+00:00

^A tough but worthwhile read.

Darren Wilson really does come across as an unsympathetic figure. Easy for me to say as I've never had death threats on my life, but never once has he gone on record with "I wish it didn't turn out that way." Of course, maybe having remorse is a sign of weakness or doubt that isn't conducive towards that job. This also reminds me that I need to finish my copy of "Rise of the Warrior Cop."

It's hard to believe it's been a year, and it's hard to believe the kind of year it's been in police/civilian relations. Although it's probably that we're just aware of it now and Mike Brown was incident that turned our attention to the issues of taxation by citation, racial bias in policing, racial bias in the justice system, and use of excessive force.

Also, as touched on in the piece I see a lot of social ills/"values gap" of today as manifestation of terrible criminal, housing, and infrastructure policy put in place in the 80s and 90s on the state and federal levels.

Ferguson and St. Louis protests discussion thread

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