Ferguson and St. Louis protests discussion thread

shimmy · PostDec 03, 2014#5512014-12-03T16:00+00:00

Trap,

I appreciate your response and obviously you know a lot more than me having first-hand experience. But it's hard for me to not roll my eyes when someone like Bill Cosby (yes, obviously now he is not an ideal example, but at the time he was very respected) gets crucified for saying some of the things I just said. As for sagging, yes, it is a low-hanging fruit. But the reason that is significant is that one shouldn't expect me to give them a job and to represent my business (going with the hypothetical that I owned a business) if that's how they present themselves. The simple logic of this is: show me you respect yourself and want to give a good impression and then I'll respect you. Whether fair or not, this plays into perception, which then plays into politics.

roger wyoming II · PostDec 03, 2014#5522014-12-03T16:28+00:00

apparently the GJ in NY on the Eric Garner homicide case may be announcing today.... we'll see what happens.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... grand-jury

southsidepride · PostDec 03, 2014#5532014-12-03T19:22+00:00

I see some have mentioned low voter turnout. Just for the record 40% of Ferguson voters turned out last month. Nationally only 36% did.

So we can decry lack of participation in the past but clearly a lot of people there are tuning in and making their voices heard in the way we want them to.

roger wyoming II · PostDec 03, 2014#5542014-12-03T19:33+00:00

Looks like no indictment in the Garner case.... I think we'll be having protests for some time. We'll see what happens in the Tamir Rice shooting death.

TheNewSaintLouis · PostDec 03, 2014#5552014-12-03T21:15+00:00

I agree with Charles Barkley disagree with Mike Ditka and I'm glad they're investigating Louis Head for his choice words of wisdom sorry isn't enough and what i always find amusing are the ones who go all out to destroy their community are the very first ones wanting a hand out and or wanting the police help. Such hypocrisy in this country

shimmy · PostDec 03, 2014#5562014-12-03T21:57+00:00

roger wyoming II wrote:Looks like no indictment in the Garner case.... I think we'll be having protests for some time. We'll see what happens in the Tamir Rice shooting death.

I've passionately defended Officer Wilson based off of logic and the evidence. However, I'm shocked that there wasn't an indictment for manslaughter in the Garner case.

Ebsy · PostDec 03, 2014#5572014-12-03T22:12+00:00

The Garner case definitely deserved an indictment.

roger wyoming II · PostDec 04, 2014#5582014-12-04T00:24+00:00

shimmy wrote: However, I'm shocked that there wasn't an indictment for manslaughter in the Garner case.

It isn't surprising at all. As some wise person once said, the whole damn system is guilty as hell.

Trap8648 · PostDec 04, 2014#5592014-12-04T13:32+00:00

Definitely not surprised there.

roger wyoming II · PostDec 05, 2014#5602014-12-05T03:54+00:00

OMG the clock has struck 1990!

Greatest St. Louis · PostDec 05, 2014#5612014-12-05T16:54+00:00

moorlander wrote:
wustl_eng wrote:On another note...

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football ... ef983.html -- Belmar claims Rams apologized for hands up gesture

This whole story is a farce. It's hard to believe the sheer gall of the police in this situation--it's almost like they're pouring salt on the wound. From Roorda's letter:

I know that there are those that will say that these players are simply exercising their First Amendment rights. Well I've got news for people who think that way, cops have first amendment rights too, and we plan to exercise ours. I'd remind the NFL
and their players that it is not the violent thugs burning down buildings that buy their advertiser's products.
Can you believe this guy?! Equating a symbolic gesture of protest with some kind of solidarity with "violent thugs" (what word do you really wanna use, Jeff?) And the whole first amendment thing is just bizarre--acknowledging the players' rights while trying to punish them for exercising them.

To me it says a lot about the attitude of the police in the region. It also says a lot about why/how the region got to this point.

"hands up, don't shoot" implies that police go around shooting people for no reason. If I was an officer I'd be offended too!

For what it's worth, St. Louis's black police officer society stands strongly in support of the five Rams who performed the "Hands Up" gesture.

This is a racial issue, not an anti-individual-police-officers issue.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/20 ... /19842453/

roger wyoming II · PostDec 05, 2014#5622014-12-05T17:02+00:00

^ And in all craziness, the President of that organization is named Darren Wilson.

MatthewHall · PostDec 06, 2014#5632014-12-06T04:26+00:00

roger wyoming II wrote:OMG the clock has struck 1990!

I think this is from an old episode of Soul Train.

MarkHaversham · PostDec 06, 2014#5642014-12-06T16:35+00:00

shimmy wrote:
roger wyoming II wrote:Looks like no indictment in the Garner case.... I think we'll be having protests for some time. We'll see what happens in the Tamir Rice shooting death.
I've passionately defended Officer Wilson based off of logic and the evidence. However, I'm shocked that there wasn't an indictment for manslaughter in the Garner case.

I assume this will negatively impact NYU's enrollment numbers next year.

stlcardsblues1989 · PostDec 06, 2014#5652014-12-06T18:12+00:00

To me the Garner case was more clear than the Ferguson case. There was no video in the Ferguson case, so I hesitate to say that Wilson should have been indicted. However, the Garner case had video, so I am surprised that they didn't indict that cop.

wustl_eng · PostDec 07, 2014#5662014-12-07T14:13+00:00

I don't think anyone should be surprised in the slightest at the Garner decision. It's almost impossible for the justice system to successfully prosecute law enforcement for wrongdoing--I imagine it would take clear 1080p HD footage of a cop executing a man on his knees with his hands behind his back to get any kind of charge. Similar to what happened in Oakland, though even that was an underwhelming punishment.

southsidepride · PostDec 07, 2014#5672014-12-07T23:04+00:00

Police officers injured and several businesses in Berkeley, CA were damaged and looted last night.

Guess U of CA and other Bay Area schools are going to see declining enrollment and tech companies might not want to expand there.

I don't mean to belittle concern over how Ferguson has affected our local economy. Just want to put the excessive hand wringing around here in perspective.

stlwahoo · PostDec 08, 2014#5682014-12-08T00:41+00:00

southsidepride wrote:Police officers injured and several businesses in Berkeley, CA were damaged and looted last night.

Guess U of CA and other Bay Area schools are going to see declining enrollment and tech companies might not want to expand there.

I don't mean to belittle concern over how Ferguson has affected our local economy. Just want to put the excessive hand wringing around here in perspective.

You're not doing anything wrong. Everything happening has been brewing for a long time. Ferguson and consequently NY were merely the match lighting. The problems are as much socio-economic as they are racial or police related. I personally believe we are in for a longish period of antagonism/protesting.

urban_dilettante · PostDec 08, 2014#5692014-12-08T02:56+00:00

southsidepride wrote:Police officers injured and several businesses in Berkeley, CA were damaged and looted last night.

Guess U of CA and other Bay Area schools are going to see declining enrollment and tech companies might not want to expand there.

I don't mean to belittle concern over how Ferguson has affected our local economy. Just want to put the excessive hand wringing around here in perspective.

The difference is that NYC and Berkeley have reputation to spare. I'm not condoning the wringing of hands either, but (deservedly or not) St. Louis' reputation is much more fragile than Berkeley's or NYC's.

jcity · PostDec 08, 2014#5702014-12-08T06:41+00:00

The NYC police look like a much bigger joke than what was made of the Ferguson police department or STL county's. The commissioner came out and said that Garner wasn't choked when it's very clear from the video that he was. Then he went on to say that you can't say I can't breathe 11 times if you're choking, which isn't true, you can still communicate as your airway starts being choked to death. So ridiculous.

Trap8648 · PostDec 09, 2014#5712014-12-09T13:00+00:00

jcity wrote:The NYC police look like a much bigger joke than what was made of the Ferguson police department or STL county's. The commissioner came out and said that Garner wasn't choked when it's very clear from the video that he was. Then he went on to say that you can't say I can't breathe 11 times if you're choking, which isn't true, you can still communicate as your airway starts being choked to death. So ridiculous.

This is true...but that's New York and we're St. Louis. They can really afford this kind of bad press...because of its reputations as a great city (which it is). St. Louis not so much, so even though the Garner case is more egregious...we're gonna be hurt for a LONG time as a result, and our recovery from this will be much slower than New York's.

moorlander · PostDec 10, 2014#5722014-12-10T18:19+00:00

UMSL implements hiring freeze, citing ‘widespread anxiety’ about region
http://m.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news/2 ... 408&r=full

roger wyoming II · PostDec 10, 2014#5732014-12-10T19:52+00:00

^ something to keep an eye on.

I remarked on the National Media thread that we'll have a mix of good and bad news coming down the pike. On the one hand, we'll have some significant projects that will be opening within the next 12 months or so -- IKEA, City Walk/Whole Foods, National Blues Museum, Arch lid, etc. -- that can help propel a "Comeback City" storyline, but if we see more stories like this, headlines on being the Nation's Murder Capital and the Rams packing up for LA, etc. a lot of those positives are going to be muted. I hope we can get a few good reform proposals moving forward quickly.

Chalupas54 · PostDec 14, 2014#5742014-12-14T18:12+00:00

Going to be in St Louis this weekend, thinking about possibly driving through Ferguson just to take a look, and possibly patronize a few businesses. Is it safe to do so? I assume so, but just making sure.

jcity · PostDec 15, 2014#5752014-12-15T05:27+00:00

Yes. A lot of people have done it. Going to get lunch there this week.

Ferguson and St. Louis protests discussion thread

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