Yeah, I think it's a pretty clear indication not to expect any indictment.
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I heard on local radio that, of the 46 protesters arrested recently in Ferguson, none lived in Ferguson. When a protester says they want all hell to break lose in Ferguson, they may be driving or flying in from some other town. It may be easier to commit righteous destruction of a town you don't live in and won't need to be around to help rebuild someday.
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Here's the WaPo leak and its a big one....
Seven or eight African American eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with Wilson’s account, but none of them have spoken publicly out of fear for their safety, the Washington Post sources said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html
Seven or eight African American eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with Wilson’s account, but none of them have spoken publicly out of fear for their safety, the Washington Post sources said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html
^ wow. 
That's a jaw-dropper. Game over. Hopefully some level of peace can be kept when it's announced.
That's a jaw-dropper. Game over. Hopefully some level of peace can be kept when it's announced.- 8,155
^ well, we'll have to see what "consistent with" means.... I think I mentioned earlier the anonymous senior citizen who said he saw Brown step towards Wilson; if that type of testimony is lumped in with the "consistent" category by these anonymous sources that won't satisfy protestors in any manner and rather inflame them. I'll believe whatever the live tweeting rapper says.
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Has there been any member of the media who has stated that maybe Wilson was following protocol? Or did they all just hang him (Wilson) immediately? just curious...
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^Wilson has P L E N T Y of support among the right wing media .
In fact some of them think he should have shot Brown dead for daring to speak back to an officer.
You think I'm joking tune in to 97.1 FM some time.
In fact some of them think he should have shot Brown dead for daring to speak back to an officer.
You think I'm joking tune in to 97.1 FM some time.
Nobody believed this man until dash cam videos surfaced. Crooked cops tried to conceal videos, but then they were arrested and jailed. St. Louis County doesn't have a prosecutor with balls big enough to prosecute crooked cops.
Some similar instances.
-Hands Up, but still punched and abused by officer | Mike Brown "Hands up", but was shot 9 times.
-Omission of details on the police report | No police report in Ferguson.
-Officer yelling, "Stop trying to take my gun". | Allegations Mike Brown tried to take the Wilson's gun. LOL!
-Police Internal Affairs found no wrong-doing by officers |Ferguson PD routinely found no wrong-doing by its officers even in severe cases.
EXCLUSIVE: DASHCAM VIDEO CLEARS NJ MAN
Some similar instances.
-Hands Up, but still punched and abused by officer | Mike Brown "Hands up", but was shot 9 times.
-Omission of details on the police report | No police report in Ferguson.
-Officer yelling, "Stop trying to take my gun". | Allegations Mike Brown tried to take the Wilson's gun. LOL!
-Police Internal Affairs found no wrong-doing by officers |Ferguson PD routinely found no wrong-doing by its officers even in severe cases.
EXCLUSIVE: DASHCAM VIDEO CLEARS NJ MAN
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That's pretty wild. Are you suggesting there's a cover up here? What do you make of the "7 african american witnesses?"
Which set of African-American witnesses? LOL. Is one set more credible than the other?moorlander wrote:That's pretty wild. Are you suggesting there's a cover up here? What do you make of the "7 african american witnesses?"
Absolutely a cover-up. ABSOLUTELY. I think this is a case of the Wilson defense and PR teams (paid for with all of that cop and KKK money) and the police twisting words and phrases from people to raise reasonable doubt in the court of public opinion. Most lawyers are shysters.
Remember when police, conservative bloggers, Wilson supporters and others initially hedged their bets on Canfield resident Michael Brady, who said he didn't see Mike Brown with his hands up. Come to find out, he didn't see Mike Brown's hands up because he was busy getting his camera. He then came out to find Mike Brown falling to the ground from the shots. Brady also said that Brown took "a step towards" the officer as he was falling down to the ground. But he saw no "bum-rushing". I guess he's no longer credible in the eyes of some people.
Piaget Crenshaw also said Brown took "a step towards" the officer, but people discount her because she also saw - like the construction contractors - Brown's hands up.
McCulloch is a clown. Going forward, he is not good for St. Louis. He needs to retire. He'll retire well as he's already the highest paid employee in St. Louis County. He is a lightening rod and in his leadership role, he has only polarized St. Louis.
This case will be no-billed on the local level because of the prosecutor's evilness and chicanery. He dragged his personal life into this case; and he knew that bombarding and overwhelming a grand jury with all of this information undoubtedly would raise reasonable doubt amongst them - especially considering the racial make-up.
I could address the conspiracy theories, but I'll just say you know an argument is in the crapper when you start proposing conspiracy theories as your primary argument because all of the facts are coming out against you.
Anyways, for a personal story of how this is affecting my life (used as an example to show how it could be affecting others from the region), I have been discussing with my fiance where we're going to live when I get out of the Army in two years. I'm of course biased to St. Louis and she is biased to her home of New England. Certainly, there are more practical issues that will determine the decision, such as job opportunities (which really favors New England as we will both have undergrad degrees from NE universities, meaning more recognition, networking, and connections. It also helps me identify much more with NE than she does with St. Louis). But last night the discussion disintegrated into a pissing contest of sorts and one of the things she said was that she loved the "camaraderie" and the sense of community in Boston and New England in general. I began to counter by saying St. Louis has a strong sense of camaraderie in its own right, as people really come together to support this old beaten SOB against the world. Then my mind switched to images of Cardinals fans and protestors shouting at each other in the street, and Rams fans and protestors brawling in the streets, and I realized that I was about to put forward an argument that I was going to get destroyed on. So I acknowledged her point and quickly changed the subject.
Obviously, this is a sample size of one and I'm not even entirely sure what it means. But I felt the need to share with the good people on this form, even those I disagree with on this issue, because I truly feel that this has severely hurt St. Louis and its reputation (you should have heard the jokes I had to put up with when I told people I was flying home for a week of leave at the end of August). So the reason I bring this forward is because I know I'm not the only one from the region that is beginning to think that the grass truly is greener elsewhere.
Anyways, for a personal story of how this is affecting my life (used as an example to show how it could be affecting others from the region), I have been discussing with my fiance where we're going to live when I get out of the Army in two years. I'm of course biased to St. Louis and she is biased to her home of New England. Certainly, there are more practical issues that will determine the decision, such as job opportunities (which really favors New England as we will both have undergrad degrees from NE universities, meaning more recognition, networking, and connections. It also helps me identify much more with NE than she does with St. Louis). But last night the discussion disintegrated into a pissing contest of sorts and one of the things she said was that she loved the "camaraderie" and the sense of community in Boston and New England in general. I began to counter by saying St. Louis has a strong sense of camaraderie in its own right, as people really come together to support this old beaten SOB against the world. Then my mind switched to images of Cardinals fans and protestors shouting at each other in the street, and Rams fans and protestors brawling in the streets, and I realized that I was about to put forward an argument that I was going to get destroyed on. So I acknowledged her point and quickly changed the subject.
Obviously, this is a sample size of one and I'm not even entirely sure what it means. But I felt the need to share with the good people on this form, even those I disagree with on this issue, because I truly feel that this has severely hurt St. Louis and its reputation (you should have heard the jokes I had to put up with when I told people I was flying home for a week of leave at the end of August). So the reason I bring this forward is because I know I'm not the only one from the region that is beginning to think that the grass truly is greener elsewhere.
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Shimmy, nice thoughtful post, quite a change from some of the emotional stuff we read here. No doubt STL is bruised and battered, and will get worse before it gets better. But I think long-term we'll be better for it. This Ferguson Commission, if done correctly (and I have my doubts), should result in a consolidation/elimination of fiefdoms and the city finally joining the county...All of this is possible...I hope that helps but if you move, I don't blame you...thank you for your service too!
- 8,155
What did they say? So far the only reference I've seen is a leak saying that the testimony is "consistent with" Wilson's story. That is extremely vague... If they stated to the GJ that there was a rush then obviously that is likely an insurmountable problem for any prosecution; but if it boils down to some kind of general stepping or moving towards Wilson then that's a huge problem if no prosecution. If there are no indictments w/o any solid witness support for Wilson's claim of a rush while at the same time having multiple witnesses of various age and race say there was no rush and many saying an apparent surrender then this town likely has not seen the worst yet.moorlander wrote: What do you make of the "7 african american witnesses?"
A Wash U professor was quoted in an AP story that while it very well could be that these leaks are an attempt to "soften the blow" of no indictment (which doesn't seem to be working very well so far), it also could be coming out from law enforcement trying to build sympathy for Wilson ahead of an expected indictment. Intriguing, but we'll just have to see what the evidence shows.
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Is anyone seeing these bumper stickers on cars in STL: (I've seen 3 of them so far)
"Ferguson, put your hands down and go to work"
That doesn't help things....
"Ferguson, put your hands down and go to work"
That doesn't help things....
- 8,155
Archcity is correct that it now turns out that independent medical examiners -- including one cited in the Post-Dispatch but who says she was misconstued -- are saying that the evidence appears to show that what happened in the car can be consistent with DW's story as well as the story that Brown did not reach for the gun. To me, the key is whether there was a rush or not by MB at DW.... if there was not then everything else Wilson says comes into great question.shimmy wrote:I could address the conspiracy theories, but I'll just say you know an argument is in the crapper when you start proposing conspiracy theories as your primary argument because all of the facts are coming out against you.
- 9,599
thinking about it now I have no idea why anyone ever expected a charge in this case, it is nearly impossible to charge a police officer, especially without VIDEO evidence..even in then the officer still has more of a slack. Did he possibly racially profile Brown? Yes. Did he murder him for no reason? No.
I say move to were you would be happy but for me I can never move back to east coast. I am from NYC and move here and I would never move back. People on the east coast are big hypocrites on many issues like race relations and other issues that seem to plague the Midwest For example east coast media like to label St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, raciest and backwards hellholes. While racial tension in Brooklyn seems like it is about to explode.shimmy wrote:I could address the conspiracy theories, but I'll just say you know an argument is in the crapper when you start proposing conspiracy theories as your primary argument because all of the facts are coming out against you.
Anyways, for a personal story of how this is affecting my life (used as an example to show how it could be affecting others from the region), I have been discussing with my fiance where we're going to live when I get out of the Army in two years. I'm of course biased to St. Louis and she is biased to her home of New England. Certainly, there are more practical issues that will determine the decision, such as job opportunities (which really favors New England as we will both have undergrad degrees from NE universities, meaning more recognition, networking, and connections. It also helps me identify much more with NE than she does with St. Louis). But last night the discussion disintegrated into a pissing contest of sorts and one of the things she said was that she loved the "camaraderie" and the sense of community in Boston and New England in general. I began to counter by saying St. Louis has a strong sense of camaraderie in its own right, as people really come together to support this old beaten SOB against the world. Then my mind switched to images of Cardinals fans and protestors shouting at each other in the street, and Rams fans and protestors brawling in the streets, and I realized that I was about to put forward an argument that I was going to get destroyed on. So I acknowledged her point and quickly changed the subject.
Obviously, this is a sample size of one and I'm not even entirely sure what it means. But I felt the need to share with the good people on this form, even those I disagree with on this issue, because I truly feel that this has severely hurt St. Louis and its reputation (you should have heard the jokes I had to put up with when I told people I was flying home for a week of leave at the end of August). So the reason I bring this forward is because I know I'm not the only one from the region that is beginning to think that the grass truly is greener elsewhere.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/20/nyreg ... .html?_r=0
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/10/23/ ... n-heights/
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc ... -1.1973372
http://pix11.com/2014/10/14/tensions-hi ... lls-riots/
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/10/14/ ... ate-crime/
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/10/19/ ... ent-hikes/
Part two of my rant I am not sure how much this had or had not hurt St. Louis. No major convention or event was ever canceled, Boeing announce two expansions, a Swedish company plans to expand in north county. Foto.com is making St. Louis city the base of their American operations. So far growth in the regions seems about the same. Also on a side note Ferguson made STL some what relevant again not for the best reasons. I know people back in NYC and my short time In LA that never even herd of St. Louis before now emailing me asking be about it like rent and stuff like that. I am in the wait and see a year are two to see how this effects the region.
Also St. Louis and Midwest cities don't get the credit they deserve or being forward thinking like St. Louis on historic preservation and one of the first to really get behind bike lanes.
1. Many "conspiracy theories" have proven to be truths upon further investigation.
2. Police and prosecutors have often presented "facts" to juries, but upon further investigation by true sleuthy factfinders those previous "facts" were ultimately demonstrated to be lies or half-truths.
3. Again, the police, in concert with the prosecutor's office and medical examiner, often times spin evidence to support their case. This is something that happens nationally and which is why prison and death row sentences are constantly overturned in the country where we are supposed to have the best justice system in the world. Some prosecutors and attorneys have been disbarred and/or fined for judicial misconduct.
4. Every person who is murdered isn't justly (or justifiably) murdered - even if it is committed by a LEO. This is why we have the judicial system as a determining factor. Some in the judicial system, however, conveniently manipulate the scales to their advantage (or liking).
5. The female forensics expert interview proves why this is a case about controlling the narrative.
6. It appears the grand jury proceedings are so intentionally convoluted (because of the spin) by the local police departments and prosecutor's office, I would be very surprised if there is an indictment. I could be wrong, but there will be no indictment; and I think Prosecutor Bob will have that big and evil Cheshire grin on his face afterwards. He wins, St. Louis loses.
Check out this video:
The effect of leaks in the Ferguson grand jury
Chris Hayes of MSNBC talks to a newspaper editor, St. Louis American - Editor, Chris King, who was offered leaks pertaining to the grand jury but refused them.
10/23/14
See Video.
2. Police and prosecutors have often presented "facts" to juries, but upon further investigation by true sleuthy factfinders those previous "facts" were ultimately demonstrated to be lies or half-truths.
3. Again, the police, in concert with the prosecutor's office and medical examiner, often times spin evidence to support their case. This is something that happens nationally and which is why prison and death row sentences are constantly overturned in the country where we are supposed to have the best justice system in the world. Some prosecutors and attorneys have been disbarred and/or fined for judicial misconduct.
4. Every person who is murdered isn't justly (or justifiably) murdered - even if it is committed by a LEO. This is why we have the judicial system as a determining factor. Some in the judicial system, however, conveniently manipulate the scales to their advantage (or liking).
5. The female forensics expert interview proves why this is a case about controlling the narrative.
6. It appears the grand jury proceedings are so intentionally convoluted (because of the spin) by the local police departments and prosecutor's office, I would be very surprised if there is an indictment. I could be wrong, but there will be no indictment; and I think Prosecutor Bob will have that big and evil Cheshire grin on his face afterwards. He wins, St. Louis loses.
Check out this video:
The effect of leaks in the Ferguson grand jury
Chris Hayes of MSNBC talks to a newspaper editor, St. Louis American - Editor, Chris King, who was offered leaks pertaining to the grand jury but refused them.
10/23/14
See Video.
There's bias in "leaked" (I say manufactured) information.
Justice Department condemns Ferguson leaks
Leaks from the grand jury in the Michael Brown investigation are triggering condemnation from Attorney General Eric Holder.
Lisa Bloom joins Rev. Al Sharpton to discuss why these leaks are unfair.
See Video
Justice Department condemns Ferguson leaks
Leaks from the grand jury in the Michael Brown investigation are triggering condemnation from Attorney General Eric Holder.
Lisa Bloom joins Rev. Al Sharpton to discuss why these leaks are unfair.
See Video
Hit by poverty, Ferguson reflects the new suburbs http://tinyurl.com/ka257cz 9:56 AM
“did the media get Ferguson wrong?” http://tinyurl.com/lan9w7k 1
“did the media get Ferguson wrong?” http://tinyurl.com/lan9w7k 1
Those companies made those decisions to invest in St. Louis before this Ferguson situation. It's all about the future now, we wont really be able to tell the effect of this for years from now.True_dope wrote:Part two of my rant I am not sure how much this had or had not hurt St. Louis. No major convention or event was ever canceled, Boeing announce two expansions, a Swedish company plans to expand in north county. Foto.com is making St. Louis city the base of their American operations. So far growth in the regions seems about the same. Also on a side note Ferguson made STL some what relevant again not for the best reasons. I know people back in NYC and my short time In LA that never even herd of St. Louis before now emailing me asking be about it like rent and stuff like that. I am in the wait and see a year are two to see how this effects the region.
Also St. Louis and Midwest cities don't get the credit they deserve or being forward thinking like St. Louis on historic preservation and one of the first to really get behind bike lanes.
St. Louis was one of the first to get behind bike lanes? If so, doesn't look like St. Louis has made much progress.
I think things are going to get worse before they get better. But put a more optimistic way (but also the way I truly view it), things have to get worse so they can get better
These issues that festered under the surface but are now boiling over... they're probably going to really explode after the grand jury announcement. We'll see how the Shaw situation progresses too.
But I think it's all ultimately going to lead to change for the better. I really, really do. We might be worse off in a year (although, I still think we'll continue to see the same slow growth development we have been), but I think we'll be better of in five. Way better off in 10.
The best is yet to come. We got called on our s*** in a way. And now we take care of it.
These issues that festered under the surface but are now boiling over... they're probably going to really explode after the grand jury announcement. We'll see how the Shaw situation progresses too.
But I think it's all ultimately going to lead to change for the better. I really, really do. We might be worse off in a year (although, I still think we'll continue to see the same slow growth development we have been), but I think we'll be better of in five. Way better off in 10.
The best is yet to come. We got called on our s*** in a way. And now we take care of it.
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That's what irks me- the idea that East Coast people think they're above this crap. Their smugness and supercilious attitudes toward St. Louis and the Midwest are very evident in the recent articles from The New York Times and The Washington Post.True_dope wrote:I say move to were you would be happy but for me I can never move back to east coast. I am from NYC and move here and I would never move back. People on the east coast are big hypocrites on many issues like race relations and other issues that seem to plague the Midwest For example east coast media like to label St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, raciest and backwards hellholes. While racial tension in Brooklyn seems like it is about to explode.
Sure, much of what is said is accurate, but the same could also be said for the racial tension that bubbles underneath the surface in those cities. New York, Washington, etc. are utopias according to the elitist media, though.
I wish I shared your optimism. Keep posting here, and perhaps your optimism will rub off on me. I love St. Louis, but I fear that it will never be the same place.jstriebel wrote:But I think it's all ultimately going to lead to change for the better. I really, really do. We might be worse off in a year (although, I still think we'll continue to see the same slow growth development we have been), but I think we'll be better of in five. Way better off in 10.
The best is yet to come. We got called on our s*** in a way. And now we take care of it.
We'd better take care of our s**t now that we've been called out on it, because right now I think we are a national embarrassment. We have yet to discover just how much the last two-plus months of unrest have cost our region.
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An amazing, alarming takedown of the Post-Dispatch hatchet job on the Michael Brown autopsy:
http://pathologyexpert.blogspot.com/201 ... chive.html
http://pathologyexpert.blogspot.com/201 ... chive.html