Houston and Atlanta have worked on their racial and cultural divides
What cultural divide? It's all southern culture down there. I think b & w southerners have way more in common with one another than they may care to admit, and not many significant differences. Same accents, same churches, same conservatism in a lot of ways, even with the segregation. The only real difference is skin tone. Consequently it isn't surprising that they've made more progress on "race" than the midwest, which is very different.
For one, our winters give you a gloomy feel for much of the year, the region is much older and doesn't have the newish, sun belt type look that most people in newer cities are accustomed to. People also don't like the industrial vibe, the smallish, close together houses, the monotone color schemes. I live between Florida and St. Louis, I'm always astonished at how hard and weathered St. Louis looks in comparison to Tampa and Orlando. Sunbelt cities also have better planned suburbs that are much more visually appealing in my opinion.
Yeah, but we HAVE winter, thus sledding and ice skating and sweaters and big coats and snow angels and cocoa. Which rules. We have a real, and big, urban core, even if it has seen better days. Is STL the prettiest of the industrial cities? No, and our burbs do suck ass. But I'd take the worst of this over the best of the sunbelt.
Houston and Atlanta have worked on their racial and cultural divides
What cultural divide? It's all southern culture down there. I think b & w southerners have way more in common with one another than they may care to admit, and not many significant differences. Same accents, same churches, same conservatism in a lot of ways, even with the segregation. The only real difference is skin tone. Consequently it isn't surprising that they've made more progress on "race" than the midwest, which is very different.
This comment reminds me of what Colin Gordon of Mapping Decline said about Saint Louis.... not the exact quote, but something along the lines of blacks & whites in the South historically have lived physically closer together while having social and legal segregation while in the North they have had lived in more segregated housing patterns but shared more social and legal integration -- Saint Louis unfortunately has traditionally shared the negative traits of the two; blacks and whites had the North's housing segregation and the South's social/legal segregation.
I think another book called STL an outpost of northern culture on the border of Appalachia. Woodard maybe? So the worst+worst thing wouldn't surprise me, especially given the "hoosier" inmigration to STL that occurred concurrent with the great migration.
Today's Moral Monday is the last of the 4 days of national protest here; it'll be interesting to see what today brings with the big rains expected but I have to admit I thought the nighttime might have been a little bit more chaotic with more agitators trying to take advantage. There were a few incidents (and you can always count on some white anarchists to burn an American flag or two in times like these!), but overall the protestors were quite disciplined and last night's actions were inspiring.... I think whatever one's support of the substance of the protests, every American should feel it was a huge win for the First Amendment last night when the line of riot police beating their nightsticks in an act of attempted intimidation were forced to back off and let the protesters proceed along the sidewalk to SLU.
Saw on TV this morning a Rick Stream (R) for County Executive ad, with an on camera endorsement of Stream by State Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal (D).
I have to say, when Nadal came out from her County perch and vocally opposed local control of the city police department being returned to the City of St. Louis, I was highly annoyed with her.
However, in this case, I'm impressed. She has made it clear she goes by her own rules and doesn't follow the party line. So here she is, a high profile Democrat, endorsing a Republican in an important St. Louis County election.
It may cost her in the end, but she's definitely proving her mettle as a free thinking independent.
Northside Neighbor wrote:Saw on TV this morning a Rick Stream (R) for County Executive ad, with an on camera endorsement of Stream by State Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal (D).
I have to say, when Nadal came out from her County perch and vocally opposed local control of the city police department being returned to the City of St. Louis, I was highly annoyed with her.
However, in this case, I'm impressed. She has made it clear she goes by her own rules and doesn't follow the party line. So here she is, a high profile Democrat, endorsing a Republican in an important St. Louis County election.
It may cost her in the end, but she's definitely proving her mettle as a free thinking independent.
I think this may be the start of something with Black people and Democrats taking our vote for granted, her as well as I have been highly annoyed with the party as of late. Not sure if it'll be enough to cost Stenger the election, but if we can at least make him sweat this election out I'll be happy.
I don't think Stream is the answer either, but at this point I'm done with Stenger. I'd much rather not vote at all than vote for him. I'm still mulling over giving Stream my vote...
^Seems like Nadal is just proving that loyalty to a specific power base (in this case Dooley) is more important to her than who she is closer to on the issues. As much as she may dislike Stenger, I doubt very much she is more aligned with Stream than Stenger on the issues.
This is politics. The is no reason to think the people in charge will be there for decades. Get stuff done while you have the chance. It's not just about staying in charge.
Well, the weekend of protests is about over. To wrap things up, protesters are at STL City Hall and Plaza Frontenac. Not sure what they hope to accomplish at either location.
Anyhow, soon, all the big names will be on planes heading back to whence they came. In a few more weeks, the first snows will be falling about the same time the St. Louis County Grand Jury finally weighs in on the Mike Brown death.
And that will be about it, won't it? You don't really think this "Moment to Movement" thing will last, do you? And if so, what is it? What's the movement, who's leading it, and how will they measure success?
Just yesterday at the SLU/Chaifetz event, the younger set of protesters essentially told the old time religious leader set that they were out of touch - too comfortable to lead today's younger generation. So scratch the old guard generation of leaders, leaving the younger folks still looking for leaders. So who does that leave?
Isn't it ironic? This effort to turn a moment into a movement is lacking the same thing so many other STL efforts lack: a leader.
Not a comforting tweet from a seasoned Saint Louis Post-Dispatch reporter...
Paul Hampel @phampel · 1 hour ago
Conversation with my wife, four kids last night: "When grand jury ruling comes down, everyone stay or get home!" #Ferguson
^ While we don't know what any other previously quiet witnesses may have said to the grand jury, for the first time I'm thinking DW might possibly be facing some serious charges.... not necessarily homicide but involuntary manslaughter or something. I think we're up to at least 7 condemning witnesses of varying age, race, etc.. We'll see soon.
Hmm. This sounds pretty good for the defense to me:
Brown put his arms out to his sides but never raised his hands high.
Brown staggered toward Wilson despite commands to stop.
But there's also this
“He was 20 to 25 feet from officer, and after he started staggering, he (Wilson) let off four more rounds. As he was firing those last rounds, Michael was on his way down. We were thinking, ‘Oh my God, oh my God, brother, stop, stop.’ He was already on his way down when he fired those last shots.”
^ It might be helpful to avoiding the most serious homicide charge, but if I'm reading the story correctly, the man's account is that MB staggered towards Wilson because he was already shot. This comports with another witness in an earlier Times story that he did not see MB's hands in the air but that he kind of "stumbled" towards Wilson after being shot and then killed as he was falling down. Nobody yet has come close to describing any kind of "rush" towards Wilson that could justify his feeling his life was in danger... that to me is the key.
Reading the article closely, I think the reporter leads with and goes out of the way to highlight portions of the account that differed from other witnesses (while recognizing that is natural) and buries what should be the lede at the end. It's also interesting that this is the same reporter who tweeted while on pregnancy leave that a source said a dozen witnesses went after Wilson.... if this is the type of thing these supposed witnesses are describing I can't see how there is no indictment. Anyway, the article headline should be something more like this:
Witness Calls Brown Death Murder
Account Provides New Perspective
The police officer who fatally shot Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., two months ago has told investigators that he was pinned in his vehicle and in fear for his life as he struggled over his gun with Mr. Brown, according to government officials briefed on the federal civil rights investigation into the matter.
The officer, Darren Wilson, has told the authorities that during the scuffle, Mr. Brown reached for the gun. It was fired twice in the car, according to forensics tests performed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The first bullet struck Mr. Brown in the arm; the second bullet missed.
The forensics tests showed Mr. Brown’s blood on the gun, as well as on the interior door panel and on Officer Wilson’s uniform. Officer Wilson told the authorities that Mr. Brown had punched and scratched him repeatedly, leaving swelling on his face and cuts on his neck.
Pretty much what you'd expect him to say, but the forensics seem to back it up. Indictment seems increasingly less likely to me.
I don't think there is any chance of indictment. The only way that there could be if they can prove that Wilson was so enraged after fighting or being attacked by Brown and even after his hands were sort of raised or even fully raged that he still decided to essentially execute Brown. I just don't think Wilson went out that day with the intention to execute someone. If the Wilson was in fear of his life, as he has testified, and the forensic evidence and bodily harm evidence of bruises and cuts on Wilson's face prove, he is going to be ruled as being justified in self defense. Sadly here, I think the inaccurate report by Dorian Johnson told a false narrative that enraged everyone, including me at first.
And the protest in shaw is not even worth the debate. The criminal shot at a cop three times before being killed by the cop. Turns out the "sandwich" was actually a gun...
Key rule: don't go looking for fights with police.
At the same time, we need to see a demise of all the harassing traffic courts and the consolidation of small towns/cities under 10,000 people in the county.
jcity wrote:At the same time, we need to see a demise of all the harassing traffic courts and the consolidation of small towns/cities under 10,000 people in the county.
I've said in other threads that number should be 30, 40 or even 50,000 unless the city can prove they can balance the books without traffic fines and court costs.
Looks like some fruitful dialogue came out of the SLU protest.... I'm hopeful that SLU will become more connected to the community and it seems like progress is being made:
Also, WaPo is rumored to be publishing some more leaks out tonight.... we'll see if there are witnesses who testified as to some kind of charge or rush at WIlson; that has been one of the key issues in my mind for whether any charges should be brought.
Yeah, it's not like any of this is really 'new information', in the sense that we all knew this would be his story from the beginning. What else could he possibly say to defend himself?
The whole MB charging thing still doesn't make sense to me. The hands up thing seems to be an exaggeration too, so I gotta believe it's somewhere in the middle. Stumbling towards him, maybe, with his hands outstretched... but charging? Seems odd. Still thinking about the video of those construction workers, one of whom does the "hands up" gesture--what exactly did they see?
And this reporting of marijuana in his blood really kind of pisses me off. Anyone who's ever been a weed smoker knows it has very little relevance in the case (maybe it made him paranoid about being arrested... but aggressive? no), and really is there to paint him as a druggy delinquent. Your average idiot reads it and goes "The kid was smoking dope--more evidence he was just a thug"
Whatever you think about these leaks and the information revealed within them, I think we are all savvy enough here to realize that these leaks are by design. It's a temperature check on how people will react to the news when Officer Wilson is cleared of any wrongdoing in the shooting death of Michael Brown in my opinion. It may also be an attempt to defuse the situation before the proverbial s**t hits the fan, although I don't think anyone is naive enough to think many (if any) minds will be changed by any evidence that is revealed once the grand jury's decision is made public.
I have to believe these leaks and other recent development are signs that an announcement is imminent. Nasheed made her publicity stunt. Slay and Nixon met in private at City Hall. Law enforcement has been planning for various scenarios for weeks, and there were reports of military vehicles moving into (or at least through) Ferguson in recent days.
I'd like to think Greater St. Louis could turn a corner and make real progress on race relations, but all I've seen so far is a community that has grown more divided. I fear things must get worse before they get better. I hope I'm wrong.
^ Same here, but I believe these leaks are no accident. The powers-that-be want to check the pulse of the community now, even if the announcement of the grand jury decision is delayed (again, probably by design) until after the election.
