urbanSTL

I find it ironic that the argument for these protests is to raise awareness, and then when people engage they're dismissed.

Debates among pseudonym posters is not engaging the issue. It's philosophical banter, but it doesn't really do much. We're all behind computer screens, and keyboards.

I think to make a change it can simply be a a nice smile and wave, a cordial hello from white to black and black to white....no dismissive turns of the head, no walking away...seriously....

Absolutely a good thing, and aren't such things just sort of a basic act of decency anyway?

it certainly is a start for regular folks to do.... that and just helping out/volunteering as one can.

This is even better, sure. Actually backing away from the computer and doing something. Even better if that something is long term and consistent - not say just showing up one day and cutting the grass in a poor neighborhood one day a year.

Ultimately though, there needs to be money. Tons of good ideas and effort die for lack of money. Raising money for community efforts is hard. We all need to buck up and put our money where are mouth is (or to back up what we post on internet boards).

I'm ready to align with the protestors only on the issue of aggressive policing tactics. Handing out endless tickets for small infractions, which in turn leads to fines and warrants. This is police intimidation and isn't american. These tiny, expendable cities are set up this way to generate revenue. Today, I saw three cars pulled over in st ann, obviously trying to make up for lost northwest plaza revenue. Handing out tickets for going three miles over the limit is just insane to me. Or over changing lanes without a blinker... This actually does remind me of the ol south and their policing tactics. Even in clayton with cops sitting on Forest park parkway all day long. Really? Are speeders that big of a problem?

wustl_eng wrote:

framer wrote:So now St. Louis can't even enjoy baseball anymore without a few race-bating haters trying to spoil the fun. I'm really so tired of all of this. Sorry everyone, but I'm done with the whole "Ferguson" thing. I'm just going to remove it from my radar and move on with my life.

Yeah, 'cause that's constructive--just pretend it never happened and it'll all go away.

Framer, like everyone else here, is entitled to his opinion. The media is trying this case every day, and so far, it seems to solve about as much as the back-and-forth discussion here: not much. I don't blame anyone who's tired of this vicious circle.

shimmy wrote:I find it ironic that the argument for these protests is to raise awareness, and then when people engage they're dismissed.

Like I said before in this discussion, tolerance is too often a one-way street. We've seen proof of that. For starters, I'd like to ask NN why a 'true conservative' is worse than a 'card carrying liberal' or why Fox News is less objective than MSNBC or CNN, although I think we all realize that's another debate for another forum. I'd prefer that we just stick to the issue at hand instead.

shimmy wrote:This thread is about Ferguson and the protests. So the logical questions to ask are "What are these protestors advocating for? Is what they are advocating for in line with the changes you want? How do these protests lead to the change that you want? What specifically is the change that you want? Are these protests doing more harm or good in getting people to engage in these issues?"

All good questions, although I don't think we got anywhere as a group trying to debate Question #4 in particular.

I do agree with NN about the need to focus on action rather than talk, and where we go from here. Since discussion sparks action, I'd like to see the conversation shift to what's next, if I may borrow a phrase from another great STL forum.

threeonefour wrote: Framer, like everyone else here, is entitled to his opinion. The media is trying this case every day, and so far, it seems to solve about as much as the back-and-forth discussion here: not much. I don't blame anyone who's tired of this vicious circle.

Obviously we're all entitled to our own opinions, but we're also entitled to call out pretty lame/misguided ones when we see 'em.

And I just don't believe this argument that the media is driving the continuing aftershocks of unrest. The media isn't making these protestors and organizers show up at the Symphony/Busch, and they're not making racist dumbasses yell horribly backward insults at said protestors. They're just reporting this stuff. Saying "oh we're all tired of it but the media is forcing it on us" is just odd to me; a lot of people obviously still care very much about Mike Brown and the disaster that was the handling of Ferguson, and they feel that their grievances haven't been adequately addressed, so they're doing something about it.

And to add on to framer's comment that I didn't address before--how is a bunch of protestors peacefully demonstrating (as is their right, no matter if you find the time or place inconvenient because it's baseball and you can't interfere with that ) and then being subject to racist verbal abuse "race-baiting"? I'm genuinely curious.

wustl_eng wrote:

threeonefour wrote: Framer, like everyone else here, is entitled to his opinion. The media is trying this case every day, and so far, it seems to solve about as much as the back-and-forth discussion here: not much. I don't blame anyone who's tired of this vicious circle.

Obviously we're all entitled to our own opinions, but we're also entitled to call out pretty lame/misguided ones when we see 'em.

And to add on to framer's comment that I didn't address before--how is a bunch of protestors peacefully demonstrating (as is their right, no matter if you find the time or place inconvenient because it's baseball and you can't interfere with that ) and then being subject to racist verbal abuse "race-baiting"? I'm genuinely curious.

At the risk of sounding 'pretty lame and misguided', I think there are some of us who are simply fed up with the neverending protests. Perhaps we see places like the ballpark and the symphony as venues that bring the community together?

I remember going downtown after the Rams won Super Bowl XXXIV and when the Cardinals won the World Series in 2006 and 2011. Each time, my hands and ribs were sore because I must have high-fived and hugged hundreds of strangers. People of all colors, ethnicities, and socioeconomic backgrounds came together, and for those brief moments at least, our community felt united. No one even bothered to ask me where I went to high school...imagine that?

Protesters have a right to assemble outside the stadium, but I don't blame those who are weary of their presence, especially when the verbal abuse (and unfortunately sometimes, the racism) cuts both ways. I'm sure this is 'pretty lame and misguided', too, but I really enjoyed my recent visits to Busch Stadium and The Ed. It was nice to see 40k-50k people in each place enjoying the moment, coming together as St. Louisans, free from the worries of the outside world, if only just for awhile.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014 ... n-shooting

Organisers of demonstrations in Ferguson, Missouri, promised to intensify their protests over the killing of Michael Brown if the officer who shot him does not face criminal charges, warning police that they are prepared to die on the streets for their cause.

wustl_eng wrote:
And to add on to framer's comment that I didn't address before--how is a bunch of protestors peacefully demonstrating (as is their right, no matter if you find the time or place inconvenient because it's baseball and you can't interfere with that ) and then being subject to racist verbal abuse "race-baiting"? I'm genuinely curious.

Actually, I never said which people I was referring to. There's plenty of ugliness on both sides. The whole thing makes me sick, and I'm done with it.

framer wrote:

wustl_eng wrote:
And to add on to framer's comment that I didn't address before--how is a bunch of protestors peacefully demonstrating (as is their right, no matter if you find the time or place inconvenient because it's baseball and you can't interfere with that ) and then being subject to racist verbal abuse "race-baiting"? I'm genuinely curious.

Actually, I never said which people I was referring to. There's plenty of ugliness on both sides. The whole thing makes me sick, and I'm done with it.

Agreed. The trouble is, for me at least, last night's events are literally much closer to home. Here we go again...

framer wrote:

wustl_eng wrote:
And to add on to framer's comment that I didn't address before--how is a bunch of protestors peacefully demonstrating (as is their right, no matter if you find the time or place inconvenient because it's baseball and you can't interfere with that ) and then being subject to racist verbal abuse "race-baiting"? I'm genuinely curious.

Actually, I never said which people I was referring to. There's plenty of ugliness on both sides. The whole thing makes me sick, and I'm done with it.

I hate to drag this on but that seems like kind of a cop out. You didn't mean the protestors when you said "race baiters"? Really? "So now St. Louis can't even enjoy baseball anymore without a few race-bating haters trying to spoil the fun."

Come on now...

founding member of the French haterz Club here- its a good thing, he's an idiot

roger wyoming II wrote:^ You're still club president, no? Hopefully he finds a home to come back to upon his return.

Acting Club President- we are having a formal election at our Xmas party.

roger wyoming II wrote:^ You're still club president, no? Hopefully he finds a home to come back to upon his return.

I sincerely hope you're right. That said, I wouldn't mind being VP of the club. I don't hate French, as I try not to hate anyone. I think he's done a lot of good in his ward, but I don't like how he has comported himself over the last two months.

threeonefour wrote:

roger wyoming II wrote:^ You're still club president, no? Hopefully he finds a home to come back to upon his return.

I sincerely hope you're right. That said, I wouldn't mind being VP of the club. I don't hate French, as I try not to hate anyone. I think he's done a lot of good in his ward, but I don't like how he has comported himself over the last two months.

I dont hate French- i strongly dislike his tactics and motives.

Just wondering does anyone think besides me worry that there would be morewhite flight from the county now after all the Ferguson, tensions? More important what about for the city,would the protest/ conflicts on shaw/south grand area undo all the work in the past 10 to 15 years, and drain the middle class from there. I probably tend to worry since any little incident can put me on edge, but are theses think likely possibilities? :/

i,Iive,to,draw wrote:Just wondering does anyone think besides me worry that there would be morewhite flight from the county now after all the Ferguson, tensions? More important what about for the city,would the protest/ conflicts on shaw/south grand area undo all the work in the past 10 to 15 years, and drain the middle class from there. I probably tend to worry since any little incident can put me on edge, but are theses think likely possibilities? :/

i don't think its that bad- I have friends closing on a house in Shaw in 10 days, they are going thru with it

thank you and that is good to hear since that area demographic changes as compared to Ferguson are going the opposite way due to gentrification, (I just asked since i want to stay hear after college with no real desire to move and don't want to invest here for nothing,) And what would be interesting was the any American city with a area that was gentrifying before a period of unrest, and came out even stronger? that would be interesting to see some examples.

dbInSouthCity wrote:

threeonefour wrote:

roger wyoming II wrote:^ You're still club president, no? Hopefully he finds a home to come back to upon his return.

I sincerely hope you're right. That said, I wouldn't mind being VP of the club. I don't hate French, as I try not to hate anyone. I think he's done a lot of good in his ward, but I don't like how he has comported himself over the last two months.

I dont hate French- i strongly dislike his tactics and motives.

Same here. I knew what you meant, and I knew RWII was kidding as well.

So, how does one go about getting an invitation to the club Christmas party?

That's great... "I probably have more in common with the Mayor than the spokesman"... but for real, why hasn't Tom Jackson been fired? I'm not gonna mince words; he's truly a disgusting, stupid, offensive official, and should in no way be in a position of leadership in that town. And the mayor? Man, how clueless these guys are. It's baffling.

Happening now in Clayton