2,430
Life MemberLife Member
2,430

PostAug 14, 2009#851

I don't believe our first Downtown developers did projects in the City before the Historic Tax Credit, then left, and finally returned only when a subsidy was on the table.

The last thing St. Louis needs would be a short term memory as this has served us so poorly thus far.


1. The Historic Tax Credit program is a subsidy.

2. Developers did work vigorously downtown and throughout the City, aided by the pre 1986 federal historic tax credit program. When the law was changed in 1986, work slowed/stopped, only to return again when more generous subsidies returned.

907
Super MemberSuper Member
907

PostAug 14, 2009#852

No one has said anything about this...



If you look at the back of your receipt, there are coupons to all local downtown stores. Pretty good coupons too!

3,785
Life MemberLife Member
3,785

PostAug 14, 2009#853

^Craig Heller and McGowan had a plan! They were threatened by the Slay Administration; permits for their other projects were stalled, financing attacked, until they withdrew their plans. The RFT has several articles on this fiasco.



Did you know the Arcade was threatened with demolition in the 1980s for parking as well? Would you have preferred a garage there as well? After all the Arcade-Wright is currently vacant!



Downtown's transformation wouldn't have happened without entrepreneurial developers and our historic buildings. In this instance one was threatened and we lost one of our most significant. Downtown has seen astronomical growth and with rational planning we could have had a larger grocery store, while still holding the Century.



I abdicate. Please continue fawning over this wonderful achievement.

2,430
Life MemberLife Member
2,430

PostAug 14, 2009#854

Doug,



I am sure most agree with you that the downtown resurgence would not have been possible without the City's historic building stock and a healthy dollop of subsidies. Heck, the City still has few subsidies to move forward new construction that match the effectiveness of historic tax credits. For that reason alone, the demolition of historic structures undermines any long term plan to revitalize downtown. We all know that the Treasurer's Department cannot afford to fill up every downtown vacant lot downtown with a parking garage with street level (and that even if they could, that it is no basis for a revitalized downtown).



For these reasons and many more (the SLAP suit, the shady way McGowan and Heller were dissuaded from rehabbing the Century Building, the outrageous demands of Webster for parking), demotion of the Century Building was wrong.



That said, the building is gone and what stands in its place has played a roll in revitalizing the Old Post Office District. For that reason, I think most will support Schnucks. Not because Decso and the City were right about tearing down a historic structure for a parking garage, but because people see the old building as long gone (nothing will bring it back now) and the addition of a full service grocery store is an important mile stone in downtown's resurgence (though less important a milestone than the day City leadership values historic structures more than parking). If you support downtown revitalization, then you should support the grocery store by stopping there. But shopping at Schnucks forces no one to vote for Slay or support wrong headed public policy by the City's "visionary" leadership.

2,831
Life MemberLife Member
2,831

PostAug 14, 2009#855

Well said J.



I do say that the garagemahal is one of the nicest (non looking too) garages I have ever seen and kept to the architectural style of the Century Building - of course not the Century Bldg.



Again, for the sake of forum space.

The Century is a loss - gone - done.



This is 2009 - almost 2010 and a new era of Downtown St. Louis.



Stop already.





-------------------



As for the store...



holy crap - this place is insane. It has completely revitalized this corner and brought the entire district to life even more. Today at 2:00 pm - crazy !!! GREAT TO SEE! In addition they have now opened 3 more check out lanes = total 10.

5,433
Super ModeratorSuper Moderator
5,433

PostAug 14, 2009#856

DeBaliviere wrote:McKernan has really become a great downtown advocate recently.

innov8ion wrote:^ Almost as much as Charlie Brennan!


I don't know...it seems to me like McKernan's opinion of downtown and St. Louis in general is increasingly positive while Brennan sounds a bit jaded lately. :wink:



Anyway, I've been in and out of town the last two weeks, so I'm looking forward to checking this place out. I drove by just before the store closed last night and it was still very busy...very encouraging! 8)

85
New MemberNew Member
85

PostAug 15, 2009#857

matguy70 wrote:Well said J.





-------------------



As for the store...



holy crap - this place is insane. It has completely revitalized this corner and brought the entire district to life even more. Today at 2:00 pm - crazy !!! GREAT TO SEE! In addition they have now opened 3 more check out lanes = total 10.


i agree. my wife and i have stopped by twice this week. i am happy to see the amount of foot traffic around the building. we've also hit the new comedy club on washington and the O/U bar this week. it's like night and day compared to 2004 when we first moved downtown.

557
Senior MemberSenior Member
557

PostAug 15, 2009#858

Going to check this out tomorrow. If we like it, we're relocating downtown from Lafayette Square. Would be nice to have some more nightlife and people our own age around.

137
Junior MemberJunior Member
137

PostAug 15, 2009#859

JMStokes wrote:Going to check this out tomorrow. If we like it, we're relocating downtown from Lafayette Square. Would be nice to have some more nightlife and people our own age around.




Wow! That's great JMStokes! We may have gained a new neighbor as I think you will really like the new store. You would be a welcome asset to our downtown community!

5,433
Super ModeratorSuper Moderator
5,433

PostAug 15, 2009#860

We checked out Culinaria last night after dining at Over & Under and a couple of laps through Citygarden, and we absolutely loved it. I'm sure there could be some things that get fine tuning along the way, but overall I think Schnucks did a fantastic job of addressing the needs of downtown residents and workers alike. It's a very inviting and convenient atmosphere, and I expect we'll take advantage of the convenience whenever we're downtown, and we'll also probably be back for the many prepared food options (which are perfect for a Citygarden picnic since it's just a couple of blocks away!).



(Doug, I understand your frustration with the Century Building, but it is really time to move forward. I don't see Kevin McGowan or Craig Heller holding any grudges against the city, and Heller is happy to move on by repositioning City Grocers. As nice as Culinaria is, I think there are some voids that City Gourmet can fill. At some point we have to move away from pining for the Century toward working harder to change the process that brought about its demolition. Otherwise it's a little bit like condemning our federal government for chasing Native Americans off their land- unfortunate, but irreversible ancient history.) :wink:



Perhaps the most interesting and unexpected benefit I see to Culinaria is the street life it has added to the area. Of course I knew the store would generate considerable pedestrian traffic, but each time I have been by late at night, many people are using the outdoor tables and chairs for al fresco dining. Although there was a Cardinals game going on last night several blocks away, the area around the OPO Square was alive and well, so I couldn't be happier!

90
New MemberNew Member
90

PostAug 15, 2009#861

I made a stop before the Cards game last night. I thought it was great. Personally I was glad to see it's more along the lines of a traditional grocery store rather than a mimic of a Whole Foods type establishment. I personally could not afford to do my grocery shopping at Whole Foods on a regular basis. (Then again, I can't afford the real estate prices downtown either so maybe I'm out of the demo) But, in the case that I did live downtown, I definitely see it as a viable and convenient place do get everything you'd need. I'll try to stop in a much as possible to support their business.

8,912
Life MemberLife Member
8,912

PostAug 15, 2009#862

I wonder how much SLU traffic Culinaria will pull?

2,076
Life MemberLife Member
2,076

PostAug 15, 2009#863

Follow up on earlier post --




115
Junior MemberJunior Member
115

PostAug 15, 2009#864

^ Well, that settles it. I will NEVER buy Cheerios or eggs from Culinaria. :wink:

2,772
Life MemberLife Member
2,772

PostAug 15, 2009#865

^ The 10 cent price increase on eggs will be the undoing of Culinaria.



It was fun while it lasted.

2,076
Life MemberLife Member
2,076

PostAug 15, 2009#866

To be fair, it's possible that the Great Cheerios Sale of 2009 started after the Culinaria visit.

115
Junior MemberJunior Member
115

PostAug 15, 2009#867

bprop wrote: the Great Cheerios Sale of 2009


If I had been eating Cheerios when I read that it would've resulted in a spit-take of legendary status. Although, I'd be more concerned that I was eating a bowl of cereal @ 5:30 p.m.



In all seriousness :wink: , they should have had the foresight to prepare for the eventuality that someone might catch them in their ruse by shopping at one of their suburban locations. They played a dangerous game & I applaud you bprop for your investigative skills & uncovering this plot.



It's obvious, if you know where to look, & you have even the simplest powers of deduction to see that every $.58, every dime will end up lining the pockets of Mayor Slay & his cronies. This corruption can NOT be tolerated anymore.



Sure, sure "the Great Cheerios Sale of 2009" may explain the $.58, BUT HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE EXTRA DIME FOR EGGS!!?? You can't, can you?



Some may even say the extra dime is worth it for the convenience, but you're just swallowing what they're spoon-feeding you. And at Culinaria's OUTRAGEOUS prices, to boot.



A dime is a lot of money in this economy. Why, just last week my cousin & I beat up a cabdriver over 2 dimes. Did I mention that I've been known to play a little hockey in Chicago in my free time?

5,433
Super ModeratorSuper Moderator
5,433

PostAug 15, 2009#868

Notes from Home wrote:
bprop wrote: the Great Cheerios Sale of 2009


If I had been eating Cheerios when I read that it would've resulted in a spit-take of legendary status. Although, I'd be more concerned that I was eating a bowl of cereal @ 5:30 p.m.



In all seriousness :wink: , they should have had the foresight to prepare for the eventuality that someone might catch them in their ruse by shopping at one of their suburban locations. They played a dangerous game & I applaud you bprop for your investigative skills & uncovering this plot.



It's obvious, if you know where to look, & you have even the simplest powers of deduction to see that every $.58, every dime will end up lining the pockets of Mayor Slay & his cronies. This corruption can NOT be tolerated anymore.



Sure, sure "the Great Cheerios Sale of 2009" may explain the $.58, BUT HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE EXTRA DIME FOR EGGS!!?? You can't, can you?



Some may even say the extra dime is worth it for the convenience, but you're just swallowing what they're spoon-feeding you. And at Culinaria's OUTRAGEOUS prices, to boot.



A dime is a lot of money in this economy. Why, just last week my cousin & I beat up a cabdriver over 2 dimes. Did I mention that I've been known to play a little hockey in Chicago in my free time?


:lol:



Well played, but you forgot to mention the Century Building and the egregious injustice of charging more for organic chicken than Whole Foods. :wink:

2,831
Life MemberLife Member
2,831

PostAug 16, 2009#869

Spoke to one of the store managers last night and he said the store has been so swamped that they did not expect this much success. He also said that they were figuring that customers would drop off after 7pm til close and he said they have had to practically push people out of the store at closing time. He said that the store;s success just in one week has exceeded all expectations.



Good news!

10K
AdministratorAdministrator
10K

PostAug 16, 2009#870

JuiceInDogtown wrote:^ The 10 cent price increase on eggs will be the undoing of Culinaria.



It was fun while it lasted.


Damn yuppies and their expensive eggs.

2,386
Life MemberLife Member
2,386

PostAug 16, 2009#871

^ went today around 6 and it was fantastic. Very exciting to see downtown. The mezz wine store? Great addition to the life of the store.

6
New MemberNew Member
6

PostAug 16, 2009#872

i've been living and working in downtown for a year and half now and the day schnucks opened was one of the happiest days! i've been going to schnucks almost every day after getting off work.



what really impressed me too was how almost everyone working in the store are smiling, all the time! i think schnucks/culinaria really trained their employees well.

729
Senior MemberSenior Member
729

PostAug 16, 2009#873

Simply said, this is a game changer. Well done Schnucks!



I live next door and the dynamics of my block have changed overnight. This area was great to begin with but now with the increased level of activity, it almost feels like a different city. The other day I was walking over to the grocer and there was a traffic jam in the street and I had to dodge people in the sidewalk. Then turned the corner to walk into Schnucks and had to wait in line. I was like, "where am I?" Looked up and down the block and most patio tables were taken, there were Harleys and Vespas parked by the front doors and a myriad of bicycles in the bike rack. Very diverse group everywhere you turned your head, it was awesome.



I have been walking over every day at different times to see how the crowds are and it is ALWAYS bustling. And yesterday went over at lunch and they had live music playing from the top of the stairs in the mezzanine area. Live music at Schnucks? You won't get that at your county Schnucks. I find myself looking for reasons to go over multiple times in a day. I'm sure the newness/excitement will fade but think this is only the beginning.

115
Junior MemberJunior Member
115

PostAug 16, 2009#874

In all seriousness, it sounds like Culinaria has gone above & beyond most everyone's expectations. I'll be DT tomorrow & I'll probably pop in to check it out.



Good for you Schnucks & I like the idea of Culinaria and Macy's servings as anchors for an urban shopping district. If, as someone mentioned, an Old Navy opened on this strip that would really open some eyes. I know I'm looking forward to seeing how this area grows. Downtown Olive could really be something special by this time next year.

2,831
Life MemberLife Member
2,831

PostAug 17, 2009#875

Sunday at 2:30 - the store is still busy!

Shoppers doing there shopping... lots of shopping - we did some more too.

It was great to pick-up meat, milk, bread and some other necessities within minutes of home - and pay normal prices and ENJOY the experience too.

Read more posts (374 remaining)