Doug wrote:...daisey chained around a large urban plaza containing a statue of Mayor Slay performing fellatio on Robert Moses and Richard J. Daley? When will we stop following Jim Jones and realize this constant circle jerk must discontinue?
To be frank, how do comments like these help your credibility?
In order to break even and keep a grocery store downtown, he thought he needed some economy of scale. It never went through; it was an idea he considered. He repeatedly said he did not want to be in the grocery business. I'm not speculating or guessing when I post that he's happy to be out of it.
we went tonight to get provisions for this weekend's float trip. What a great store! The staff was extremely friendly and kept the lines moving. Lots of customers in a new store can be confusing, but everything seemed to be flowing pretty well.
It was great to see folks a block or two from the store carrying their Culinaria bags, more foot traffic is a good thing
zink wrote:Purdue and Culineria Chicken Breasts were $1.69 a POUND. Their Organic packaged chicken breast was $8.99 a pound.
Wholefoods is always 5.99-6.99 a pound.
I was hoping Culineria was going to somehow differentiate it from Schnucks in some of the quality of foods they offer...
That is something I noticed as well. Culinaria is pretty awesome, but I'm sure all of us have various things we would like to see improved. One of the things I really like about the store is that they are actively seeking suggestions. Personally I've inquired about having larger oatmeal cannisters available. I know they have less space to stock more versions of things, but I figure it couldn't hurt to ask.
That brings me back to the meat counter. I'd like to see a better variety of options in some meats. For the moment, Trader Joe's, which has a smaller meat section, seems to have a better variety. Zink already mentioned the chicken and I'd like to see bison and more grass fed beef options. They did at least seem to have a decent amount of turkey already.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to going back this weekend with a full grocery list for the first time!
southsidepride wrote:zink I'm confused, are you upset that the Culinaria and Tyson chicken is too cheap or that the organic labeled chicken is too expensive?
Not upset, just disappointed in "Culineria" compared to "Schnucks". I was hoping for something that would be in between a WholeFoods and a Schnucks. Seems the only difference is that it is 1/3 the size with some visual differences.
southsidepride wrote:zink I'm confused, are you upset that the Culinaria and Tyson chicken is too cheap or that the organic labeled chicken is too expensive?
If people want to buy inexpensive chicken they have that option, if they want to overpay for an organic label they have that option too.
You seem to think that Whole Foods is the gold standard or something for having only one moderately overpriced option for chicken.
If folks are going to overpay for something with an organic label why blame Schnucks for wringing the most they can out of them?
I think you know the answer but just feel like being mean. Whether you prefer organic or inorganic food, we all prefer prices similar to comparable locations.
Actually Culinaria does have one freezer section for wild game
They have Venison, Bison, Ostrich, Duck and Quail...
The deli section with the Boar's Head meats is awesome! I also like the Boar's Head sandwich shop next to the deli. Their bread selection was a little on the weak side and the checkouts move quick but are a little tough if you have a whole bunch of stuff. They are very receptive to comments and suggestions though and most of this will work itself out.
The store itself is simply amazing, they did a great job.
All of the shopping carts have radio locks on them so that if you take them past the front doors the wheels lock up and they are immobilized. This happened to me as I attempted to take my cart tot he elevator to go to my car...but no worries, a manager was right there and simply said to pull my car up and they would load it for me, the carts cant be taken into the garage and I had too much stuff to carry.
innov8ion wrote:I think you know the answer but just feel like being mean. Whether you prefer organic or inorganic food, we all prefer prices similar to comparable locations.
I don't think "we all prefer prices similar to comparable locations"'. Some folks will happily pay more for convenience. There are undeniably some downtowners who are willing to pay a little more to walk to Culinaria instead of driving to a store somewhere else.
innov8ion wrote:I think you know the answer but just feel like being mean. Whether you prefer organic or inorganic food, we all prefer prices similar to comparable locations.
I don't think "we all prefer prices similar to comparable locations"'. Some folks will happily pay more for convenience. There are undeniably some downtowners who are willing to pay a little more to walk to Culinaria instead of driving to a store somewhere else.
Especially when getting to Whole Foods from downtown means the following right now:
-get in your car and get onto 40/64 west
-drive 40/64 west to Forest Park Parkway
-drive about 5 miles on FPP to 170 south
-go 170 south to Eager
-fight your way through the Eager Rd mess get to Whole Foods
Doug wrote:...daisey chained around a large urban plaza containing a statue of Mayor Slay performing fellatio on Robert Moses and Richard J. Daley? When will we stop following Jim Jones and realize this constant circle jerk must discontinue?
To be frank, how do comments like these help your credibility?
You may be Frank but I'm still Doug.
You missed the beginning of the statement where I referenced comedian Lewis Black. Perhaps I should have mentioned my favorite the vitriolic Bill Hicks.
I think without light humor the unsustainable evisceration of Downtown might be rather difficult to consider, especially since policy makers think it's a good idea: demolition for parking, demolition for private drives, construction of parks and plazas where buildings once stood. We're creating a urban/suburban hybrid which stymies the density required for an actual walkable, transit oriented Downtown. This all comes at the expense of our historic built environment, while we have few new designs that rival the turn of the century masters.
But we're all happy about Schnucks, despite the fact that they divested from Downtown, demolished the Century (while in other cities we find historic buildings occupying smaller grocery stores), and doubtfully wouldn't have moved back Downtown without a significant subsidy. The fact that the general public sells for such low standards speaks volumes to the legacy we'll leave for future generations.
This decision rivals Real Estate Row as one of St. Louis' pettiest, most ego driven planning failures. Indicative of the many failure of our city leadership, I estimate the 9th Street Garage will be as cherished as Gateway One.
I just find it strange that Doug would prefer we had the old Cass Schnucks (which was pretty much a suburban store plopped on the edge of downtown with a sea of parking) rather than Culinaria which is MUCH more urban and pedestrian oriented.
First of all Doug...seek help...seriously there are some great meds out there that can help with your anxiety/blood pressure/psychosis.
Doug wrote:But we're all happy about Schnucks, despite the fact that they divested from Downtown, demolished the Century (while in other cities we find historic buildings occupying smaller grocery stores), and doubtfully wouldn't have moved back Downtown without a significant subsidy. The fact that the general public sells for such low standards speaks volumes to the legacy we'll leave for future generations.
The public subsidy is a non issue, almost every loft building downtown recieved public subsidies in the form of tax credits (both Federal and State), in addition many of the original loft projects enjoyed 10 year tax abatements (another form of public subsidy). Also many projects recieved brownfields credits, yet another subsidy. As someone who favors historical preservation, I am sure you understand this is the only way it would have been practical for anyone to touch these buildings. Also as a preservationist I am sure you can see how it is a tad hypocritical to toot the public subsiy horn as any subsidy that Schnucks got is dwarfed by the amount of subsidies that have actually been used to preserve buildings.
In addition don't forget that Schnucks is a local company and has been devoted to the city (more than out other grocers). The two newest grocery stores in the city (Culinaria and Loughborough) are both Schnucks. They pay earnings tax on every employee they have as well as generate sales tax revenue for the city. Additionally, the increased amount of foot traffic has really made that section of downtown feel alive.
The last thing I'll say (and then I am done with this ridiculous discussion) is that we would have all preferred that the Century not be torn down. Would it be awesome if there was a Schnucks in the ground floor of a renovated Century...yes, but that was not a reality. If you really believed in saving the Century so much why didn't you get out of your parents basement and get some investors together to buy the thing and renovate it? The Century is long gone, but from its ashes has emerged a great asset to downtown, aside from saving the Century that is the best possible outcome.
Come on. After all these posts, it is clear what Doug wants people to do. He wants people to stand on principal and not shop at Schnucks or any other retail use that would inhabit that space.
That said, boycotting such a positive development for downtown out of principal seems short sighted to me.
I am not arguing that Schnucks happens to be the only chain operating in the City, but we can't give them a pass. Public subsidy happens to be an issue. Schnucks abandoned Downtown and now they're back, partially due to subsidy. I don't believe our first Downtown developers did projects in the City before the Historic Tax Credit, then left, and finally returned only when a subsidy was on the table. While we provided the Historic Tax Credit, there was still a significant risk for these developers as few lived Downtown and many believed residential wouldn't work (despite urbanists asserting, since the 1970's, that we needed residential). Schnucks, who used eminent domain and TIF to create the suburban Loughborough Commons, ideally targeted to serve St. Louis Countians existing Highway 55, are not entrepreneurial pioneers with immense civic pride as to actually take a huge risk and establish a trend.
If they were then Schnuck would have stayed, not only reconfigured their store at Cass Avenue, but built an entirely new store at the site serving both Downtown and the near North Side -- the latter which especially desperately needs quality goods and services. Business leaders which truly valued our City would not demolish the historic Century Building. It's like Larry Deutsch wanting to lob off the top of the Merchandise Mart, as was done with the Columbia Building.
I ask those who are so inclined to boycott Culinaria. If this position happens to be too extreme then at least recognize that Culinaria cannot place erase the memory of the Century Building, nor the astronomical amount of corruption which led to its incarnation. The last thing St. Louis needs would be a short term memory as this has served us so poorly thus far.
I'd rather have a bustling Culinaria than a vacant Century.
If you wanted to save the Century you should have manned up, bought it and renovated it.
Downtown's transformation in the last 10 years is nothing short of amazing and Culinaria is an integral part of that. Not only will I not boycott Culinaria, I will do all of my shopping there and make sure that they know how greatful their neighbors are for taking a chance and opening a real grocery store where nobody else would.
Now when suburnbanites ask me where I buy my groceries, I have an answer.
Stop posting the same things over and over.
