urbanSTL

I wonder how much of Dierbergs being shut out of the city is a result of Desco (Schnucks development arm) owning most of the suitable property? This was an issue when Shop N' Save tried to build in Affton, Desco would not allow them to locate there, Sunset Hills and Kirkwood have a similar problem. One example in the city is South Broadway and Hwy 55 it is totally controlled by Desco.

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:

TheWayoftheArch wrote:^Previously owned by the Wetterau family of Ladue. Sold for 1.2 billion.

Do they have any daughters?

I think one might have been a Veiled Prophet Queen back in the 80's or 90's. So thus, she's a total bowser.

southcitygent wrote:One example in the city is South Broadway and Hwy 55 it is totally controlled by Desco.

And it's worse off because of it. The east side of Broadway between Gasconade Street and Osceola Avenue looks like a dump.



Since DESCO is responsible for Loughborough Commons a couple of exits away south on I-55, I don't foresee them redeveloping this stretch anytime soon.

dweebe wrote:

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:

TheWayoftheArch wrote:^Previously owned by the Wetterau family of Ladue. Sold for 1.2 billion.

Do they have any daughters?

I think one might have been a Veiled Prophet Queen back in the 80's or 90's. So thus, she's a total bowser.

ThreeOneFour wrote:I don't like that Dierberg's has chosen to completely avoid the city by setting up shop in nearby suburbs (Brentwood, Mackenzie, and Lemay). And I don't like some of DESCO's developments. Other than that, I can't complain about the local grocery stores. I've been to other places where the choices are worse, and yes, things could be much worse.

You can thank our city representatives for the 1% income tax.

compared to most major cities, the 1% is not that bad...2-3% is pretty common. I know KC's is higher than ours as is Chicago, Cincinatti and many others...

"Comparable" only for cities with earnings taxes. According to the Show-Me Institute, there are only 23.



source: http://showmeinstitute.org/smi_study_1.pdf



city tax-rate what's taxed

Indianapolis, IN 0.7 Federal AGI

Allentown, PA 1 wages, bus profits, other

Kalamazoo, MI 1 wages, other

Kansas City, MO 1 wages, other

Lansing, MI 1 Federal AGI

Pittsburgh, PA 1 wages, other

St. Louis, MO 1 wages, other

Portland, OR 1.25 Federal AGI

Grand Rapids, MI 1.3 Federal AGI

Louisville, KY 1.45 wages

Saginaw, MI 1.5 Federal AGI

Cleveland, OH 2 wages, bus profits, other

Columbus, OH 2 wages, bus profits, other

Steubenville, OH 2 Federal AGI

Cincinnati, OH 2.1 Federal AGI

Dayton, OH 2.25 Federal AGI

Lexington, Ky 2.25 wages

Youngstown, OH 2.25 Federal AGI

Scranton, PA 3.4 wages, bus profits, others

Toledo, OH 2.51 Federal AGI

Detroit, MI 2.75 Federal AGI

New York, NY 3.65 Federal AGI

Philadelphia, PA 4.54 wages, bus profits

Now I see the point: NYC is really struggling and Philly is so poor off that their building this hiddeous thing (which studies have shown will kill their productivity)(~ )

KC 1% (I was incorrect, it is the same as ours)

NYC 2.5 - 3.6 % (progrssive scale)

Columbus 2%

Detroit 2.5%

Pittsburgh 1%

Cleveland 2%

Cincy 2.1%

HMMMM take a good hard look at that list... interesting. what do they have in common? All older rust belt cities who are NOT on the "hotlist" like Denver, Charlotte, Seattle, Phoenix, etc. New York is the ONLY major "success story" purely because it is so incredibly large and landlocked, there are no other options for businesses, for the most part.



All of these cities have mostly faded from former glory, if you ask me. EXCEPT for st louis, it's got a lot going for it, the momentum is here, let's continue it by SOMEHOW eliminating this tax, or at least for any NEW business over a certain size that moves to the city.

yes clearly NYC is past its glory...geez talk about painting with broad strokes, cleveland and pittsburgh have actually been pretty significant urban renewal stories.



Yes, Denver has no income tax, but their property taxes are obscene...

and i clearly noted NYC as the exception as you can see... but, no lets, keep pretending that agressively taxing businesses doesn't hurt the city.. dumdedummmmdum

^ I'm just not convinced that a 1% income tax is the deciding factor - don't you think other incentives, housing, etc. etc. etc. have a much greater impact?

To me, the income tax does hurt. A little However, if we were to wake up tomorrow and the tax be gone, nothing would change--for awhile. A long while. I don't care what some business owner told you or your neighbor. It's not much of a deciding factor. It's only one of those excuses people come up with to mask their real thoughts. Would I like to see it gone? Absolutely. But I don't think it's what's keeping the city down. Crime is the biggest factor. Second is age-old predjudice. Tax is like number eight.

Now, kids, let's get the terminology right. It's an earnings tax. Which means, thanks to our ace BofA, that if you're a kazillionaire who works in the City and makes about $10 mill exercising stock options, you don't have to pay the resulting $100,000 in earnings taxes (although you do have to pay federal income tax).



That little gem was passed about six or seven years ago to keep large corporations from moving out of the City, and to attract all those cool dot-com companies for whom options were "critical to their ability to attract good employees." It's worked really well, don't you think?

I just wrote my check and I am pissed. But, I hate paying ALL my bills. Totally unrealistic and impossible in practice, but I wish I could allocate my tax money for schools or something the city really needs.

steve wrote:To me, the income tax does hurt. A little However, if we were to wake up tomorrow and the tax be gone, nothing would change--for awhile. A long while. I don't care what some business owner told you or your neighbor. It's not much of a deciding factor. It's only one of those excuses people come up with to mask their real thoughts. Would I like to see it gone? Absolutely. But I don't think it's what's keeping the city down. Crime is the biggest factor. Second is age-old predjudice. Tax is like number eight.

Spot-on assessment, Steve. And I just love how this thread has devolved into another debate about the earnings tax. Every year, a think tank rears its head to proclaim that the earnings tax is holding the city back. And every year, the same think tank(s) never offer practical solutions to fill the massive hole in the city's budget that would emerge if the tax was eliminated.



Innov8ion, with all due respect, I fail to see how the earnings tax is holding Dierbergs back from locating inside city limits, when Schnucks operates several locations, Shop 'n' Save has three stores, and then you have smaller specialty grocers like Straub's and City Grocers. Even if the tax is a factor, it's hardly the only one, and it's probably not the main reason Dierbergs has shunned the idea of a city location.

^ Actually, the think tank did offer practical solutions to fill the hole in the budget... I remember reading the article that explained this but don't have it off the top of my head. I'm sure it's listed in a thread here somewhere. Also, I believe Slay is pushing for city income tax reform...



I don't know what's keeping Dierberg's from entering the city limits. Maybe there are better reasons, but the city income tax can't help.

but the city income tax can't help

No one's saying that the tax is a lure! j/k - seriously, please, no more lectures!

Grover wrote:

but the city income tax can't help

No one's saying that the tax is a lure! j/k - seriously, please, no more lectures!

Heh, yeah. Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious sometimes though.

Yes it is. It's also sometimes necessary to reiterate one's point. Yes it is.

Har

Has there been any announcement of this endeavour as of yet?