urbanSTL

I saw a group of folks who I took to be architects/construction folks in the space earlier this week. They were carrying a set of plans, pointing at various portions of the interior as well as the plans, and chatting with one another. Looks to me like there may be some build out activity starting soon.

Cool. I was wondering when they were going to start work on this. Glad to hear there's some activity going on.

The future manager of the new Schnucks was downtown today showing around two people from their marketing department. They are touring some of the neighborhing buildings to get a feel for what the downtown workers/residents will be looking for. Also getting familiar with the CID guides, etc.



They seem intent on getting a getting a good product mix in on day one...

AvantStL wrote: Also getting familiar with the CID guides, etc.

So they don't get run over by a CID guide on a bike while walking on the sidewalk? Or so that they know to look both ways when crossing athe street, because a guide might be going the wrong direction?

AvantStL wrote:The future manager of the new Schnucks was downtown today showing around two people from their marketing department. They are touring some of the neighborhing buildings to get a feel for what the downtown workers/residents will be looking for. Also getting familiar with the CID guides, etc.



They seem intent on getting a getting a good product mix in on day one...

While I agree with that point, clearly Schnucks appears to be in no rush. Hopefully we'll see some progress soon, but frankly I thought we would've already seen at least some basic work completed by now.

I can't wait to see what this Schnucks is going to look like!



Could it be that they've put this project on ice because of the economic downturn?

ttricamo wrote:I can't wait to see what this Schnucks is going to look like!



Could it be that they've put this project on ice because of the economic downturn?

I am hearing that this is a go and looking for a Spring '09 opening.

From Schnucks.com:



http://www.schnucks.com/pressreleases/20080220-a.html

This is still very much a go. I'm on a Schnuck's consumer panel and was asked within the past couple weeks if I'd participate in a group panel concerning the Downtown store. Unfortunately I had to say no as I'll be out of town on the date of the panel, but I'd love to be in on it on a future date.

This store will be great for downtown, it will really solidify urban living in downtown St. Louis and change a lot of perspectives about living in the city. Only thing I'm afraid of is that Schnucks my monopolize the downtown market and hurt City Grocers.

^ no way!



if anything, schnucks downtown will create a great competitive environment. City Grocers will find a niche or will improve their business because of the new player in the game.



Long live capitalism!

I may be wrong about this, but I thought City Grocers was more of a stopgap measure anyway. In other words, I thought it was something the developers of that building started with the idea that a full-service grocer would open in downtown eventually.



Although I don't live or work downtown, I'm looking forward to this Schnucks because I figure I'll use it to pick up at least a few things whenever I'm already in downtown. I think there's an opportunity for City Grocers to develop a niche and survive despite the presence of Schnucks nearby.

^^That assumes that City Grocers was ever profitable, which I don't think it was. As had been stated many times, Craig Heller created City Grocers to sell condos, not to make money selling sundries.



That being said, whether or not City Grocers remains all depends on how well Schnuck's understands the downtown market, and opportunity cost. If I had to place a bet, I would place it on Schnuck's being fairly clueless with respect to what downtown workers, residents, and visitors want, at least initially. That leaves open the possiblity of City Grocers capitalizing on it's proximity to Schnuck's and filling some niche, or several, which Schnuck's fails to fill. However, the traffic generated by that Schnuck's will also create an opportunity for other businesses in the immediate vicinity with perhaps more viable business plans.

I would place it on Schnuck's being fairly clueless

I would bet the opposite. Every Schnucks I have ever been in seems to capture its neighborhood almost exactly.

ttricamo wrote:I can't wait to see what this Schnucks is going to look like!



Could it be that they've put this project on ice because of the economic downturn?

It's because the financing they're utilizing is complicated. It unfortunately took longer than expected.

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:

jlblues wrote:If I had to place a bet, I would place it on Schnuck's being fairly clueless with respect to what downtown workers, residents, and visitors want, at least initially.

Why?

Because Schnuck's does not understand the urban market in general very well, so it stands to reason that they won't grasp the complexities of the downtown market. Schnuck's seems to view it's city stores as more of a necessity for PR reasons, rather than potentially profitable enterprises.



Because I've been in their stores on South Grand and Lindell.



Because the vast majority of city residents that I know are still making regular trips out to Dierberg's, Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. Sure they still shop at the city Schnuck's for many of their staples and when they need to pick up just a few things, but they generally go to those other places for the higher-margin prepared foods, gourmet items, wine, fresh meat and produce, etc., and I'm sure they end up spending quite a bit on staples there as well. Trader Joe's and Whole Foods have a death grip on the demographic information they have collected about their customers, but I have seen studies done for current and potential retail in the U. City/Clayton/Brentwood/Maplewood/Richmond Heights area, and they confirm that St. Louis City residents are spending a massive amount of money in those areas. As far as I can tell, Schnuck's has made little to no serious attempt to capture any of that spending.



And because until now, Schnuck's has made no attempt whatsoever to create a store designed and stocked specifically for the urban market. Most of their current city stores are simply cheaper, outdated, poorly-managed, poorly-maintained versions of their suburban stores. The one store that I've seen in their entire chain that even slightly resembles an urban grocery store is the Big Bend/Clayton Road store, and that wasn't even designed by Schnuck's. There are many city neighborhoods that deserve, and can support, decent grocery stores, and Schnuck's is currently the only entity that has the regional economies-of-scale to make the numbers work. I don't think, however, that Schnuck's believes that the city renaissance is sustainable, or that it even exists, for that matter, and because of that intractable attitude, they will continue be reactive rather than proactive, will therefore continue to miss opportunities, and the city will be poorer for it.

publiceye wrote:

I would place it on Schnuck's being fairly clueless

I would bet the opposite. Every Schnucks I have ever been in seems to capture its neighborhood almost exactly.

Really? You must not do much grocery shopping. How do the Lindell, South Grand, Hampton Village, Loughborough, or Gravois stores capture their neighborhoods? They all look pretty much the same to me, and they mostly stock the same items, so I guess you believe those neighborhoods are all the same? The only store that even remotely reflects the character of it's neighborhood is the Arsenal store with it's special Taste of the Hill section, but their deli, seafood, butcher, baker, produce, and prepared food selections are pathetic, and the gourmet items they do stock are more expensive than those at their suburban counterparts, neither of which would seem to reflect the neighborhood's wants and needs.

From everything I've heard this isn't going to be a typical city Schnuck's. It will be more of a specialty store catering to the downtown loft market. I believe they hired special consultants to help them do it right and as I mentioned earlier, they have a downtown consumer panel they're listening to so they can better serve this community.



At the end of the day, I'd rather cast my vote for a store that has a presence in the City rather that other stores, such as Dierberg's, that have totally stayed away and do nothing to encourage even the Metrolink traffic from the City at their Brentwood store.

Downtown STL Fan wrote:From everything I've heard this isn't going to be a typical city Schnuck's.

Well, I certainly hope not.

Downtown STL Fan wrote:It will be more of a specialty store catering to the downtown loft market.

They definitely need to target more than just downtown residents. 10,000 residents or not, selling prepared foods, salads, gourmet items, wine, cheese, baked goods, etc., as well as basic necessities, to the 90,000 or so office workers - both the lunch and the on-their-way-home crowds - will be key to the success of this store.

Downtown STL Fan wrote:I believe they hired special consultants to help them do it right...

Yeah, but this is St. Louis, so there is a 90% chance that those "special consultants" all have a surname of Schnuck.

I've said before that I believe many downtown workers will stop at this store on their way home to pick up groceries and it's probably more convenient for them to do that than go to their store in the burbs.



Since you don't have anything positive to say about Schnucks, does it mean you'd rather see them not come downtown and keep City Grocers as the only grocery store? I think the Schnuck's store will be a very positive addition to downtown and I guess we'll have to wait and see which of us is right in their thinking.

ttricamo wrote:if anything, schnucks downtown will create a great competitive environment. City Grocers will find a niche or will improve their business because of the new player in the game.



Long live capitalism!

The process that brought Schnucks downtown is about as far removed from capitalism as most European national economies, if not the Albania of Enver Hoxha.

I have too. Did you ever consider that neighborhoods get the grocery store they deserve? Especially South Grand.

You know, you're a button pusher and you crave the forum spotlight, and I can appreciate that, but the comment above is ridiculous even by your standards.



"Deserve"? "Especially South Grand". So, in your all-knowing opinion, what type of store does a mixed income, got some good/got some bad apples neighborhood "deserve"?



You're saying people in the South Grand area deserve poor customer service as well as a poor product. Why?



Talk about sweeping generalizations...

I have gradually shifted my grocery shopping from Dierbergs in Brentwood to the Straubs on Kings Highway and Maryland. It is a relatively small store, but I've found my shopping experience to much more pleasant at Straubs...Their fresh meats/fish/seafood are, far superior to what I have found at Dierbergs not to mention the deli type items. Prices may be a little higher, but not by much. And, the customer service and friendliness provided by their staff is far superior.