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PostMar 28, 2008#401

Good news for us downtown workers and for residents, but


"If we didn't have the public support, it wouldn't be a viable project," said Scott Schnuck, chief executive of Schnuck Markets. "We're starting with a space that wasn't designed for a grocery store."


Didn't they -- as in, Schnuck's development arm -- build the building from scratch? And it already needs subsidy?

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PostMar 28, 2008#402

Worth it? I think so, but i'm ready for the day 'we' don't have to give subsidies.




Editor's Note

If you build it, they will come

St. Louis Business Journal - by Joe Dwyer



How can Schnucks afford to build a $7.6 million concept store downtown?



As one of the region's largest private companies, Schnucks can afford it, but it doesn't make complete economic sense. So, it's receiving help from the government for more than half the cost.



In Christopher Tritto's Page 1 story, he walks us through where the money is coming from, with help from documents filed with the state.



Scott Schnuck is taking an entrepreneurial leap of faith in a market the grocer left in the 1980s. Because of a common perception that downtown needs a full-service grocery store to continue the residential growth of the past five years, it's only fitting that the city help out.



At a time when there's so much economic turmoil nationwide, it's comforting to hear Schnuck say, "We're counting on the continued momentum downtown."



-- Joe Dwyer, Managing editor



jdwyer@bizjournals.com




http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... rial2.html

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PostMar 28, 2008#403

Moorlander wrote:Worth it? I think so, but i'm ready for the day 'we' don't have to give subsidies.


Me too, but facts are facts and we need more of this LONG TERM thinking that's in the best interest of the city instead of the smash and grab tactics we've been experiencing.

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PostMar 28, 2008#404

Nice news to follow up the Ballpark Village circus.

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PostMar 28, 2008#405

DESCO tore down the Century and had no idea the new building might house a Schnucks?



I don't buy it. The project could probably work without subsidies, but they'd be fools to not seek what the city has given everyone else.

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PostMar 28, 2008#406

Matt Drops The H wrote:DESCO tore down the Century and had no idea the new building might house a Schnucks?


That is correct. Desco does not own the garage.

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PostMar 28, 2008#407

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Matt Drops The H wrote:DESCO tore down the Century and had no idea the new building might house a Schnucks?


That is correct. Desco does not own the garage.


Doesn't sound the least bit fishy to you, huh?

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PostMar 28, 2008#408

How much subsidy did City Grocers get for its initial build out, and how much is it receiving to remain open now that the City is subsidizing its competitor?

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PostMar 28, 2008#409

bonwich wrote:How much subsidy did City Grocers get for its initial build out, and how much is it receiving to remain open now that the City is subsidizing its competitor?


I don't know but their already-expensive yogurt went up 25%, so I'm subsisizing it at least a little. :lol:

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PostMar 28, 2008#410

bonwich wrote:How much subsidy did City Grocers get for its initial build out, and how much is it receiving to remain open now that the City is subsidizing its competitor?


I would really like to know the answer to this, since usually when I get on my soapbox about supporting local businesses, I am told it's the "consumer's choice" that enables chains to dominate local businesses.



But why is one choice heavily subsidized by the government?



Sounds like there are a lot of parallels to suburban development and housing patterns.

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PostMar 28, 2008#411

bonwich wrote:How much subsidy did City Grocers get for its initial build out, and how much is it receiving to remain open now that the City is subsidizing its competitor?
How much did City Grocer's build-out cost? Did they even apply for an initial subsidy? Did they apply for a subsidy to restructure their business once Schnucks is a competitor? Doubt it. You snooze you lose.



The scope of Schnuck's downtown grocer is far more ambitious than City Grocer and brings name recognition that will serve to encourage further investment. It makes sense.



Business is business. When it comes to creating a strategy to compete in a shifting environment, the buck stops with the CEO. I can sympathize with City Grocer, but as I understand it, it was set up as a means to help sell lofts.

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PostMar 28, 2008#412

Joe, being savvy in business means playing the government handout game. Only losers don't ask for handouts! You have to constantly be on the prowl for giveaways. Where is your sense of capitalism?

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PostMar 28, 2008#413

Innov8ion--



City Grocers may not be the best example, but the subsidies given to "recognizable name brands" is something that will choke this city in the long run. Even Sunbelt rapid-growth cities have local retail and shopping options. A city with nothing but national chains exports its dollars and dillutes its own identity simultaneously.



When our government is afflicted with the pathological thinking that the only economic development is large scale development, your city--and its local businesses--don't have much of a chance. The competitive playing field is not equal; a bias in preference for the strip shopping center and for chains, or both, has been built into St. Louis urban development policy for decades now and has affected consumer demand. Adding subsidies to that destructive bias is not what this city needs.



This is perhaps not entirely applicable since Schnucks is technically local, but this is interesting nonetheless:


Austin and Chicago



In 2002 a study was commissioned in Austin, Texas, to compare the comparative economic benefit to the community of Bookpeople, an Austin independent bookstore, and Waterloo Records, a local music store, with a proposed Borders store that threatened to drive both out of business. The study looked at the local economic impact - i.e. the degree to which money from each business flows back into the local economy. The study concluded that for every $100 of money spent at Borders $13 flowed back into the community in wages, expenditures, taxes, etc. With the independents, however, the comparable figure was $45. In other words, the two independent stores yielded more than three times the local economic impact.



In 2004, a larger study was conducted in the Andersonville district of Chicago, one of the city’s livelier neighborhoods. In that study, ten local businesses were analyzed, including four restaurants, three service businesses, and three retailers (one of which is a book store), and they were compared against ten chain store competitors. The economists looked at both the direct effects of local spending by the businesses, such as wages, local procurement, charitable contributions, etc., as well as indirect effects of the continuing expenditure of the money in the community using the standard IMPLAN method of calculation.



The results were similar to what was found in Austin. In Chicago they found that the locally owned businesses produced about a 70% percent advantage for the overall local economy:



Locally-owned businesses generate a 70% Local Premium in enhanced economic impact.

For every $100 in consumer spending with a local firm, $73 remains in the Chicago economy.

For every $100 in consumer spending with a chain firm, $43 remains in the Chicago economy.

For every square foot occupied by a local firm, local economic impact is $179.

For every square foot occupied by a chain firm, local economic impact is $105.



The complete study can be found at www.andersonvillestudy.com



From the Chicago study:

"Across the board, locally-owned businesses substantially exceed their chain competitors . . . For example, local firms spent an average of 28 percent of revenue on labor compared to 23 percent for chains. Additionally, eight of the ten local firms are owned by Chicago residents, so profits largely remain in the city. Local firms procure local goods and services at more than twice the rate of chains. Finally, locally-owned firms in the study contribute more to local charities and fundraisers than do their national counterparts and, although this provides the smallest local advantage of the four categories, this difference is important to the community."


From HERE.

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PostMar 28, 2008#414

^ I understand the paradigm you mention and it should probably be a consideration. In the case of CG & Schnucks, both were local. It'd be interesting to see the "subsidy" criteria and decisionmaking process. It should be public, eh? In the end, to get a subsidy you have to ask for one. Schnucks did, CG didn't (to my knowledge.)



Oh, and it's not a handout; it's an incentive. An incentive is any factor that provides a motive for a particular course of action, such as getting Schnuck's to move downtown to help trigger further investment at a time when it may not have made economic sense for them otherwise. A handout requires no action on the part of the entity receiving the handout. To be clear, incentives are capitalist instruments. Handouts are not.

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PostApr 01, 2008#415

Right...Desco does not own the garage, they just get to profit from it...According to the SLBJ, Desco developed the garage and maintains the leasing rights for the building's retail space.
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Matt Drops The H wrote:DESCO tore down the Century and had no idea the new building might house a Schnucks?


That is correct. Desco does not own the garage.

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PostApr 01, 2008#416

SchneidlyWhiplash wrote:Right...Desco does not own the garage, they just get to profit from it...According to the SLBJ, Desco developed the garage and maintains the leasing rights for the building's retail space.
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Matt Drops The H wrote:DESCO tore down the Century and had no idea the new building might house a Schnucks?


That is correct. Desco does not own the garage.


Good for them!

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PostMay 09, 2008#417

I'm told that Tom Colorra (sp?), the manager at Schnucks on the Hill, will be the manager at the new downtown Schnucks. I always thought Schnucks on the Hill to be a great store due in part to the freedom Tom had to run the store as he pleased.

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PostMay 12, 2008#418

^ I agree- I think that bodes well for the quality and selection of merchandise that will likely be available at the downtown location.

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PostMay 12, 2008#419

Was out walking a week or two back and noticed they had a sign or two in the windows facing East towards the Old Post Office. Not that that adds any more confirmation, but probably helps visitors who still questioned the viability of the project.

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PostMay 12, 2008#420

ChrisInDownTown wrote:Was out walking a week or two back and noticed they had a sign or two in the windows facing East towards the Old Post Office. Not that that adds any more confirmation, but probably helps visitors who still questioned the viability of the project.


I believe it also says "Spring 2009". I was hoping for sooner.

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PostJun 21, 2008#421

Well Schnucks has put signs in the door windows. OPENING SPRING 2009 - Schnucks Grocers... Deli/Seafood/Pharmacy/Full Grocery

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PostJun 23, 2008#422

matguy70 wrote:Well Schnucks has put signs in the door windows. OPENING SPRING 2009 - Schnucks Grocers... Deli/Seafood/Pharmacy/Full Grocery


Been there for about 2 months now. :)

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PostJun 23, 2008#423

bonwich wrote:How much subsidy did City Grocers get for its initial build out, and how much is it receiving to remain open now that the City is subsidizing its competitor?
http://www.stlcommercemagazine.com/arch ... undup.html

St. Louis-based BSI is the contractor for the building. Gorecki says plans had not been finalized yet, so any comment on the project would be premature.



The project, as with much of the downtown projects, is using affordable tax exempt bonds for a funding mechanism, Gorecki says.

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PostJun 23, 2008#424

matguy70 wrote:Well Schnucks has put signs in the door windows. OPENING SPRING 2009 - Schnucks Grocers... Deli/Seafood/Pharmacy/Full Grocery


Does it look like anything is going on inside?

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PostJun 24, 2008#425

^Absolutely nothing.

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