I recently heard of a Dierbergs closing that has never been profitable. Possible that Arnold is that store?
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^
I think it was a north county Dierbergs and an Arnold Schnuck's.
I think it was a north county Dierbergs and an Arnold Schnuck's.
But on a related note, Arnold is getting a Dierberg's soon. It is under construction now.
Hmm, isn't WalMart working on their version of an urban, small-scale grocery store, pharmacy, etc?
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The Downtown Schnucks rumor mill keeps churning. One of the salespeople I spoke with at The Alexa on the loft tour said Schnucks is planning to open a store in the Ninth Street garage retail space. And one of the brochures I picked up with downtown information has Schnucks listed at 915 Olive Street.
I have to believe they'll make an announcement sooner or later, but there's no point in getting excited until they do. I haven't seen this much jumping the gun since we were trying to get a pro football team in St. Louis. And by the looks of things, we could use another one of those as well.
I have to believe they'll make an announcement sooner or later, but there's no point in getting excited until they do. I haven't seen this much jumping the gun since we were trying to get a pro football team in St. Louis. And by the looks of things, we could use another one of those as well.
amyh1028 wrote:But on a related note, Arnold is getting a Dierberg's soon. It is under construction now.
Where exactly is it at?
^Between I-55, 141, Church Road, and Mo State. It is a THF project and the typical Strip Mall nastiness.
To get back on topic, I have a class with someone that works at Desco, in fact is part of the family. Tells me that there are no plans for a downtown Schnuck's and that it is projected to operate in the red for 15 years. However he said it would make perfect sense for a store to be there.
I personally think their fifteen year prediction is completely ridiculous, and still expect a Schnuck's down there sometime int he near future.
To get back on topic, I have a class with someone that works at Desco, in fact is part of the family. Tells me that there are no plans for a downtown Schnuck's and that it is projected to operate in the red for 15 years. However he said it would make perfect sense for a store to be there.
I personally think their fifteen year prediction is completely ridiculous, and still expect a Schnuck's down there sometime int he near future.
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MattnSTL wrote:To get back on topic, I have a class with someone that works at Desco, in fact is part of the family. Tells me that there are no plans for a downtown Schnuck's and that it is projected to operate in the red for 15 years. However he said it would make perfect sense for a store to be there.
I personally think their fifteen year prediction is completely ridiculous, and still expect a Schnuck's down there sometime int he near future.
I agree on both accounts. Obviously someone at DESCO's been crunching the numbers, which makes me think a downtown location's a strong possibility even if it's on the back burner and no one wants to comment on it. I also think the 15 year prediction is ridiculous. I understand it wouldn't be profitable initially, but as downtown's population continues to grow in the coming years and major projects like Lumiere Place, Ballpark Village, and the not-so-distant Mercantile Exchange are completed, I think it would take a fraction of the 15-year timeframe mentioned to make the store profitable.
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Hmm, isn't WalMart working on their version of an urban, small-scale grocery store, pharmacy, etc?
When I lived in Houston we had the Walmart Neighborhood Stores. Check out Wikipedia for a photo and details. As a planner, I know any city that is seeking a more urban design than that is fighting an uphill battle
I've read a story or two about some urban designs and I'm fairly certain it was WalMart..but the article was about the battle of getting an urban layout of the big-box retailer.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal-Mart_N ... ood_Market
Which makes me wonder if City Grocer's is profitable or whether it's just a loss leader by development backers to sell lofts.ThreeOneFour wrote:I agree on both accounts. Obviously someone at DESCO's been crunching the numbers, which makes me think a downtown location's a strong possibility even if it's on the back burner and no one wants to comment on it. I also think the 15 year prediction is ridiculous. I understand it wouldn't be profitable initially, but as downtown's population continues to grow in the coming years and major projects like Lumiere Place, Ballpark Village, and the not-so-distant Mercantile Exchange are completed, I think it would take a fraction of the 15-year timeframe mentioned to make the store profitable.
The photo above is of KaDeWe, the largest department store in Berlin, home to an amazing grocery store on the 5th floor.
With all of the talk about Schnucks considering moving into downtown coupled with the residential growth, it seems that there is an opportunity to both add a major downtown grocery store and perhaps revitalize the downtown Macy's as well.
Combine them!
Let Schnucks (or any other local grocery like Straubs or Dierbergs) sublease space inside Macys as the location of their downtown grocery store. It is pretty easy to imagine how such a combination with Schucks in the old basement would work pretty well, offering high visibly and easy access from the ground floor combined with ground floor signage for Schnucks. Macy's could even allow the 6th Street entrance to be the designated Schnucks entrance, complete with Schnucks related window dressings and entry signage.
The benefits from a combined store would be:
A. A much cooler downtown Macys
B. Greater drawing power for the downtown Macys
C. Greater drawing power for Schnucks (from both tourists and Macy's shoppers)
D. Closer proximity for Schnucks to major downtown offices along Broadway
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innov8ion wrote:Which makes me wonder if City Grocer's is profitable or whether it's just a loss leader by development backers to sell lofts.ThreeOneFour wrote:I agree on both accounts. Obviously someone at DESCO's been crunching the numbers, which makes me think a downtown location's a strong possibility even if it's on the back burner and no one wants to comment on it. I also think the 15 year prediction is ridiculous. I understand it wouldn't be profitable initially, but as downtown's population continues to grow in the coming years and major projects like Lumiere Place, Ballpark Village, and the not-so-distant Mercantile Exchange are completed, I think it would take a fraction of the 15-year timeframe mentioned to make the store profitable.
I would wonder too. Margins in the grocery biz are razor thin.
^It might be getting close now, but I don't think they have made any money from it. Regardless, if and when it is profitable, I suspect that the lunch crowd is the only thing that makes it so.
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innov8ion wrote:Which makes me wonder if City Grocer's is profitable or whether it's just a loss leader by development backers to sell lofts.
That's a good question. Even if they are turning a profit, I suspect it can't be much at this point (as they're entering their fourth year in business).
JMedwick wrote:
That building in Berlin looks awesome, and would be great in St. Louis, after we have established a successful retail district that is exposed to the street. I think Union Station and St. Louis Centre would have been more successful if there was retail around it, on the exterior base of their buildings. I think the big part of their failures is due to the lack of retail on Market and Washington.
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Xing wrote:JMedwick wrote:
That building in Berlin looks awesome, and would be great in St. Louis, after we have established a successful retail district that is exposed to the street. I think Union Station and St. Louis Centre would have been more successful if there was retail around it, on the exterior base of their buildings. I think the big part of their failures is due to the lack of retail on Market and Washington.
I don't see any place to park.
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When Union Station opened, retail was open off of Market street along with outdoor Café seating. It was closed off by many of the shops due to security concerns.
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The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Xing wrote:JMedwick wrote:
That building in Berlin looks awesome, and would be great in St. Louis, after we have established a successful retail district that is exposed to the street. I think Union Station and St. Louis Centre would have been more successful if there was retail around it, on the exterior base of their buildings. I think the big part of their failures is due to the lack of retail on Market and Washington.
I don't see any place to park.
what? the Schnucks? I've heard that this is still happening. They're just "trying to figure out this new urban grocery store concept" since it will be the first...I hope they've figured it out. Maybe they're waiting on more buildings to be completed, ie Alexa, Arcade, etc.
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To be honest, I hold the Schnuck's in such low regard for what I perceive as their contempt for St Louisans* and downtown St Louis that I believe they proffered the plan merely to intimidate any potential competitors.
*See Desco and their many empty lots. See Desco and the Century Building. See Schnucks location at Grand and Lee and and the outdated merch and bad produce serving the inner city poor.
*See Desco and their many empty lots. See Desco and the Century Building. See Schnucks location at Grand and Lee and and the outdated merch and bad produce serving the inner city poor.
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^Yeah, let's boycott Schnucks and spend our money at one of Dierberg's many St. Louis city stores! Oh, wait...
BTW, when I lived in UCity, I used to shop at the Ladue Crossing Schnucks, and their produce sucked too.
BTW, when I lived in UCity, I used to shop at the Ladue Crossing Schnucks, and their produce sucked too.
Yes, what most upsets me about this is that City Grocers could have expanded by now. Since they are waiting on Schnucks to make a definitive move one way or the other, now BOTH grocery stores are being stalled.