The problem is that Schnuck's, at least according to a classmate from DESCO, really doesn't have plans for a downtown store. They don't think it will be profitable.
That's their claim, at least.
That's their claim, at least.
MattnSTL wrote:The problem is that Schnuck's, at least according to a classmate from DESCO, really doesn't have plans for a downtown store. They don't think it will be profitable.
That's their claim, at least.
So I ask again; why did the Post, St. Louis Business Journal and other news outlets loudly announce this last spring that Schnucks was opening a location downtown? Did Schnucks change their mind or did the media have it wrong?
Also: why is that first level in the Garage Mahal a large single space instead of multiple slots?
Were they simply trying to freeze City Grocers into closing or moving?
^Spaces like this are often left open untill an interested party comes knocking. That way the tenant can specify how much sf they want (leaving the space open for a wider range of tenants). Also, the developer has no reason to divide the space and spend money on design, construction and maintenance until someone is interested in the space.
I would not be at all surprised that Schnucks is trying to buy out City Grocers prior to opening a store downtown.
dweebe wrote:MattnSTL wrote:The problem is that Schnuck's, at least according to a classmate from DESCO, really doesn't have plans for a downtown store. They don't think it will be profitable.
That's their claim, at least.
So I ask again; why did the Post, St. Louis Business Journal and other news outlets loudly announce this last spring that Schnucks was opening a location downtown? Did Schnucks change their mind or did the media have it wrong?
Also: why is that first level in the Garage Mahal a large single space instead of multiple slots?
Were they simply trying to freeze City Grocers into closing or moving?
Why was the store announced in the media and then quickly denied?
And in the same vein, whatever happened to the City Market @ Bohemian Hill? Lots of publicity and the months/years of no activity.
Do St. Louis companies like Schunck's & Gilded Age have a desire for publicity with out any regard for the truth?
Do St. Louis companies like Schunck's & Gilded Age have a desire for publicity with out any regard for the truth?
dweebe wrote:dweebe wrote:MattnSTL wrote:The problem is that Schnuck's, at least according to a classmate from DESCO, really doesn't have plans for a downtown store. They don't think it will be profitable.
That's their claim, at least.
So I ask again; why did the Post, St. Louis Business Journal and other news outlets loudly announce this last spring that Schnucks was opening a location downtown? Did Schnucks change their mind or did the media have it wrong?
Also: why is that first level in the Garage Mahal a large single space instead of multiple slots?
Were they simply trying to freeze City Grocers into closing or moving?
Why was the store announced in the media and then quickly denied?
Please cite the date and article in which the St. Louis Post-Dispatch "loudly announce(d)" that Schnucks was opening a location downtown.
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^ Fair enough, but it does seem that City Grocers stopped their plans to expand when the Desco-operated retail space large enough for a Schnuck's was rumored to be the site of a new Schnuck's. It appears as though they successfully disueded CG was moving and expanding.
(I think the market across from the Georgian is still moving ahead)
(I think the market across from the Georgian is still moving ahead)
bonwich wrote:dweebe wrote:dweebe wrote:
So I ask again; why did the Post, St. Louis Business Journal and other news outlets loudly announce this last spring that Schnucks was opening a location downtown? Did Schnucks change their mind or did the media have it wrong?
Also: why is that first level in the Garage Mahal a large single space instead of multiple slots?
Were they simply trying to freeze City Grocers into closing or moving?
Why was the store announced in the media and then quickly denied?
Please cite the date and article in which the St. Louis Post-Dispatch "loudly announce(d)" that Schnucks was opening a location downtown.
You're right. KMOV and St. Louis Business Journal messed up. I apologize.
Please cite the date and article in which the St. Louis Post-Dispatch "loudly announce(d)" that Schnucks was opening a location downtown.[/quote]
You're right. KMOV and St. Louis Business Journal messed up. I apologize.[/quote]
While it was not a headline, Deb Peterson had a paragraph or two in her column and she was on KTRS with McGraw Milhaven saying this was her exclusive story. Not exactly newsworthy, but she was representing the PD.
You're right. KMOV and St. Louis Business Journal messed up. I apologize.[/quote]
While it was not a headline, Deb Peterson had a paragraph or two in her column and she was on KTRS with McGraw Milhaven saying this was her exclusive story. Not exactly newsworthy, but she was representing the PD.
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Schnuck's web site never discusses new stores until they open so I wouldn't lose any sleep over the fact they're being tight lipped about the new downtown store. I still think it's coming in early 2008 but it is a shame that City Grocery has had to halt their plans. They're just as tight lipped as Schnuck's, though, so I guess we're all just going to have to wait and see.
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I would like to see City Grocery expand than to see a Schnuck's open up downtown. Maybe in the future but not right now.
foodicles wrote:Please cite the date and article in which the St. Louis Post-Dispatch "loudly announce(d)" that Schnucks was opening a location downtown.
You're right. KMOV and St. Louis Business Journal messed up. I apologize.
While it was not a headline, Deb Peterson had a paragraph or two in her column and she was on KTRS with McGraw Milhaven saying this was her exclusive story. Not exactly newsworthy, but she was representing the PD.[/quote]
Exactly what she wrote was as follows:
NOT A MIRAGE: Several sources said Thursday that finishing touches are being put on a plan for a 20,000-square-foot Schnucks to go into the first floor of the Desco-DFC Group garage development at Ninth between Olive and Locust streets. The Century Building formerly was at the location. A source close to the project said the store would be more than three times larger than the nearest grocery, City Grocers at 10th and Olive streets. Expected is an upscale urban market, complete with an in-store pharmacy, restaurant, deli and food bars. It would be more of a boutique size, not comparable to the large suburban Schnucks stores. A spokeswoman for Schnucks declined to comment on the project. St. Louis officials and a spokesman for DFC also declined comment.
A week later, Gail Appleson wrote this:
The gleaming rebuilt space called the Ninth Street garage looks ready for retailing on the first floor. There’s a shiny new facade on the building that stretches between Olive and Locust streets, and even a new sidewalk has been laid.
Everybody seems to think Schnuck Markets Inc. will open a smaller, upscale store there, even though City Grocers gourmet shop plans to expand into a location next door.
While Maryland Heights-based Schnucks won’t divulge its plans, the possibility of neighboring groceries raises a nagging question: Can a developing downtown support two fancy markets?
And my point wasn't to challenge Dweebe -- rather, it was to reinforce, as I have throughout this thread, that Schnucks has never said anything about opening this store. Deb reported it as "sources say," and duly reported Schnucks' silence. A few other media folks, however, kinda sorta apparently jumped the gun.
It simply amplifies my standing rule for St. Louis development: Never believe it until you actually hear the jackhammers.
Honestly bonwich, that rule could apply to most major cities in the United States. I can't even begin to tell you how many developments have never come to fruition in Houston after they have been announced.bonwich wrote:It simply amplifies my standing rule for St. Louis development: Never believe it until you actually hear the jackhammers.
Atlanta, as much of a booming town as it is, is still waiting for the jackhammers to roar on some projects.
St. Louisans have an issue with confidence. The jackhammers and digging could be roaring away and people still won't believe it (ex. Roberts Tower). They won't believe until the project is complete and would still find ways to moan and groan about the project. Some of the reservations St. Louisans have about development are rational reservations, but a lot of it is irrational.
St. Louis has had her issues with development, but things have gotten much, much better in recent years.
In regards to Schnucks downtown, I believe where there is smoke there is fire (so to speak). Schnucks have not confirmed or denied an urban concept store for the OPO garage. Why would there be so much buzz if this store wasn't a serious possibly?
Anyway......it would be nice if we learned that City Grocers and Schnucks were partnering on a venture for downtown.
it would be nice if we learned that City Grocers and Schnucks were partnering on a venture for downtown.
Partnering is the nicest word for buyout I have ever heard.
It's almost the end of 2007 and there have been no indications of any Schmucks's downtown. Therefore, there's no way a Schmuck's will be downtown in early 2008 and doubtful at any point in 2008.
Isn't City Grocer's just a developer front to sell more lofts downtown? I mean, it's nice but would they stick around if Schmuck's came in?
By the way, did this ever happen? http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... ocus8.html
Isn't City Grocer's just a developer front to sell more lofts downtown? I mean, it's nice but would they stick around if Schmuck's came in?
By the way, did this ever happen? http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... ocus8.html
Construction of the OPO garage was only very recently wrapped up. From my own observation of downtown development, the retail component usually doen't begin construction until a few months after the building as a whole is complete.
I guess I'm just not sure why people are thinking Schnuck's simply "won't happen" because it's been a month or two since the garage has been finished.
I guess I'm just not sure why people are thinking Schnuck's simply "won't happen" because it's been a month or two since the garage has been finished.
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innov8ion wrote:By the way, did this ever happen? http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... ocus8.html
Isn't it supposed to be a Miami style Nightclub, with a rooftop? Haven't been by in a while, but there was a dumpster outside for a bit.
Innov8...City Grocers is not a front, it is a thriving urban grocer that has seen continuing growth. True, a developer does own it, but using the term front implies that it is not a viable business.
The location for the other grocery store that M.Burghoff was planning has been back on the market for quite some time now. I don't think that project ever got past the hype.
The location for the other grocery store that M.Burghoff was planning has been back on the market for quite some time now. I don't think that project ever got past the hype.
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I did read somewhere that City Grocers was not profitable and was a "loss-leader" for the developer. Is this not correct? I understand that any business often loses money for some time after it opens.
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innov8ion wrote:It's almost the end of 2007 and there have been no indications of any Schmucks's downtown. Therefore, there's no way a Schmuck's will be downtown in early 2008 and doubtful at any point in 2008.
Isn't City Grocer's just a developer front to sell more lofts downtown? I mean, it's nice but would they stick around if Schmuck's came in?
By the way, did this ever happen? http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... ocus8.html
When it's time to eat those words (and I think there will be a time}, don't come back and say you were talking about SCHMUCKS, not SCHNUCKS!
One more thing. Has anyone seen any signs posted at the Ninth Street Garage advertising retail space on the first floor? Or have you seen any advertising anywhere for it? I haven't. I would think if Schnuck's wasn't going to use that space Desco would be advertising it. That property is too valuable to just sit there vacant.
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steve wrote:Construction of the OPO garage was only very recently wrapped up. From my own observation of downtown development, the retail component usually doen't begin construction until a few months after the building as a whole is complete.
I guess I'm just not sure why people are thinking Schnuck's simply "won't happen" because it's been a month or two since the garage has been finished.
This may be true when the retail is split and lined up afterwards. However...look at English Living. They were signed on very early in the process, (As Schnucks could have been as well). They opened pretty much at the same time as Ely Walker. Additionally...comsidering the garage was built from new, accomodiations could have been ongoing to allow for retail to be put in quicker. It just all seems strange.
At this stage, I am suprised that they have not turned that level into parking spots!!
There may be a Schmuck's in that location but certainly not in early 2008 and likely not before the skybridge is torn down. I'd bet you a 6 pack on that one.Downtown STL Fan wrote:When it's time to eat those words (and I think there will be a time}, don't come back and say you were talking about SCHMUCKS, not SCHNUCKS!innov8ion wrote:It's almost the end of 2007 and there have been no indications of any Schmucks's downtown. Therefore, there's no way a Schmuck's will be downtown in early 2008 and doubtful at any point in 2008.[/url]
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^ I won't take you up on that bet, because my money's on 2009 at the earliest.
You'd think the least they could do is to dress up the windows or something. We lost The Century for this?
You'd think the least they could do is to dress up the windows or something. We lost The Century for this?