Eh, I never liked "Real Estate Row" anyway, seeing as how it was all built by "monied interests" and all.
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Grover wrote:Eh, I never liked "Real Estate Row" anyway, seeing as how it was all built by "monied interests" and all.
Like this guy:
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I feel for the local businesses that are struggling in this down economy. The opening of the Culinaria is hitting them at an inopportune time. But lets remove our heads from the tunnel vision for a second and look 6mo, 1yr, 5yrs down the road.
The opening of Culinaria is a major step in the right direction for the downtown neighborhood and central business district. With any large scale retail operation opening it's doors there is expected to see some repetitive businesses shutter. We haven't yet seen the rush of businesses located near Culinaria like I expect. Or have we??? - The Time is opening in the Paul Brown building and will certainly benefit from the mass foot traffic from Culinaria. I expect others to follow.
You see this all the time in the burbs. Many retail businesses survive mainly off the traffic in stip centers generated by grocers and big box retail What makes anyone think this will be any different? Just wait and see, this will be a boon for downtown.
The opening of Culinaria is a major step in the right direction for the downtown neighborhood and central business district. With any large scale retail operation opening it's doors there is expected to see some repetitive businesses shutter. We haven't yet seen the rush of businesses located near Culinaria like I expect. Or have we??? - The Time is opening in the Paul Brown building and will certainly benefit from the mass foot traffic from Culinaria. I expect others to follow.
You see this all the time in the burbs. Many retail businesses survive mainly off the traffic in stip centers generated by grocers and big box retail What makes anyone think this will be any different? Just wait and see, this will be a boon for downtown.
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PtDrake...Wow. I am impressed. You pretty much said everything that needed to be said in this particular argument. Keeping an eye out for future posts.
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No offense to other posts, but i just went to the culinaria / Schnuck-mart and it was packed with people buying lunch and not groceries. I personally think the food looks awesome, but i cant buy it because i know that it is crushing the local organic growth. Honestly, in 1-5 yrs down the road, if schnucks keeps cannibalizing the competition do you really think there are going to be any new coffee/ food businesses that are going to want to open up near schnucks. Here is the sad fact: People here are incredibly lazy and cheap and Downtown has too little foot traffic at this point in time to support a lot of retail. Big Brands turn a blind eye, and its very difficult for small owners to make their overheads work out. Part of what we have achieved thus far has been organic mixed use business and not one giant entity taking away variety. I cant say that the schnucks is not an awesome store because it has been really great for groceries and i live downtown, but i am just worried about the micro walmartization of the downtown OPO b/c of what it offers. Successful retailers rely on website sales to stay in business and not just on in-house sales, but they also have a symbiotic relationship with other local businesses (just think Uma and Rooster, for example). If a bunch of smaller restaurants close, leaving a bunch of empty storefronts, property values decline and we begin to return to the way things were 10 years ago: Vacant office blocks, dead zones, and no incentive to work or live downtown. At this point, I cant see people (new restaurants and retail) wanting to rush to open up around opo if there is only one place for people to go to lunch and foot traffic being only in and out the door and back to the computer desk. Not to be a doomsdayer, but if more businesses close which is entirely possible, its going to be hard to replace them with anything, and people are going to begin to lose faith in downtown as a business, residential, recreational, and retail destination. Its a vicious cycle and i hope i am wrong and that the schnucks novelty factor is still in play. With that being said we need to support the local businesses or we will not prosper in future years. I just dont think that in 1-5 years down the road we will be totally different as moorlander says if people continue to neglect other business in favor of Culinaria at lunchtime. Unfortunately, i dont think the free market model is going to work out in the long run unless people can diversify their habits. Look how quickly wal-mart ruins small rural towns. This is not too dissimilar.
Also try the Gyro at city gourmet, its really good.
Also try the Gyro at city gourmet, its really good.
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^I guess it just comes down to which way you believe things will go.
If you believe that people will continue to move into the syndicate, the arcade and alexa will be finished and people continue to move in there, and that Roberts Tower will sell units, then what you have just said above has absolutely no truth to it in the slightest.
How many times in a row do you want to eat at culinaria for lunch? If you live downtown, do you really think people are going to continually go eat at culinaria? No, they are going to buy groceries there to sustain their downtown lifestyle.
If you work downtown, are you going to go to the same place all the time to eat? I hope not. People want, no NEED variety in order to remain sane. Not to mention the fact that I completely disagree with your estimation of the entire metro area as "CHEAP."
You basic underlying point has some truth to it, to be sure. But to take it to the level you have in your above post, you have to be fairly ignorant of reality.
If you believe that people will continue to move into the syndicate, the arcade and alexa will be finished and people continue to move in there, and that Roberts Tower will sell units, then what you have just said above has absolutely no truth to it in the slightest.
How many times in a row do you want to eat at culinaria for lunch? If you live downtown, do you really think people are going to continually go eat at culinaria? No, they are going to buy groceries there to sustain their downtown lifestyle.
If you work downtown, are you going to go to the same place all the time to eat? I hope not. People want, no NEED variety in order to remain sane. Not to mention the fact that I completely disagree with your estimation of the entire metro area as "CHEAP."
You basic underlying point has some truth to it, to be sure. But to take it to the level you have in your above post, you have to be fairly ignorant of reality.
Immediately after I submitted my last post, I had an Epiphany that I think I should share with everyone...
IT'S JUST A ***** GROCERY STORE!
Good lord, is it seriously going to cannibalize downtown? Cause an almighty Armageddon for downtown?
IT'S JUST A ***** GROCERY STORE!
People b**** and moan for years about how downtown will never be sustainable unless it gets amenities within walking distance, and when we finally begin to see these amenities realized, and GOOD ones at that, people b**** and moan about how it now is NOT good for downtown.
IT'S JUST A ***** GROCERY STORE!
woo, got it off my chest.
IT'S JUST A ***** GROCERY STORE!
Good lord, is it seriously going to cannibalize downtown? Cause an almighty Armageddon for downtown?
IT'S JUST A ***** GROCERY STORE!
People b**** and moan for years about how downtown will never be sustainable unless it gets amenities within walking distance, and when we finally begin to see these amenities realized, and GOOD ones at that, people b**** and moan about how it now is NOT good for downtown.
IT'S JUST A ***** GROCERY STORE!
woo, got it off my chest.
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Nice. 
It's customary to rant and then regain composure and present a balanced argument or comment, but I really like what you've done here. I think that it correctly struck you that some people and/or issues simply cannot be reasoned with.
It's customary to rant and then regain composure and present a balanced argument or comment, but I really like what you've done here. I think that it correctly struck you that some people and/or issues simply cannot be reasoned with.
What may be the most severe recession-depression and loss of wealth ever and some blame Schnucks???
I think most downtown workers are employed in the financial services, government, and legal sectors. I can't remember the last time I went out to lunch. Most people are swamped and barely able to balance work and home. I wouldn't know what a leisurely full hour for lunch looks like anymore.
I think most downtown workers are employed in the financial services, government, and legal sectors. I can't remember the last time I went out to lunch. Most people are swamped and barely able to balance work and home. I wouldn't know what a leisurely full hour for lunch looks like anymore.
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Matt wrote:What may be the most severe recession-depression and loss of wealth ever and some blame Schnucks?
Someone should tell President Barack Obama and former President George W. Bush that they're off the hook for this one.
Doug wrote:Ignoring we already had a grocery store
More like an overpriced, gourmet convenience store.
I'm sorry that some businesses have closed, I'm sorry that some businesses aren't doing as well prior to Culinaria opening (recession aside).
But I'm not sorry that I and other downtown residents can walk to a grocery store that has the same prices as its other stores.
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City Grocer was stupidly expensive. And for someone who likes to cook at home, buying the necessary ingredients was either impossible to find or would cost an arm and leg. I never did like going there.
streetsabby wrote:City Grocer was stupidly expensive. And for someone who likes to cook at home, buying the necessary ingredients was either impossible to find or would cost an arm and leg. I never did like going there.
I went in there once. They were like a convenience store with luxury items. I couldn't find 3/4 of the items I was looking for, and what I did find was very expensive. I think they're better in their current form.
Culinaria is a typical full service grocery store, and one I'm glad to have. Could they have done without the coffee and gelato? Yes. Without the hot food bar - I doubt it.
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Look, I'm tired of reading this crap. I'm going to say this once now, and never again - we ain't buddies, we ain't partners, and we damn sure ain't friends. So sit back, and listen, take it in, and realize that I am right and that no argument you make from here on out makes a difference.
No major city of any size has ever had a grocery store in it's downtown.
You are fools who think that a grocery store to serve downtown residents would actually HELP downtown. What's wrong with you people?
No major city of any size has ever had a grocery store in it's downtown.
You are fools who think that a grocery store to serve downtown residents would actually HELP downtown. What's wrong with you people?
JuiceInDogtown wrote:
No major city of any size has ever had a grocery store in it's downtown.
You are fools who think that a grocery store to serve downtown residents would actually HELP downtown. What's wrong with you people?
I see what you did there.
Let's put it this way...
ENOUGH is ENOUGH!
Competion is a wonderful thing.
If you don't want to compete - then don't b**** about it.
If you feel that Schucks is evil - then don't shop there.
and last but not least...
ANY ADDITIONAL POSTS BELOW THIS ONE WHICH ARE NOT NEWSWORTHY - WILL BE DELETED. No more rants and raves. Thank you.
ENOUGH is ENOUGH!
Competion is a wonderful thing.
If you don't want to compete - then don't b**** about it.
If you feel that Schucks is evil - then don't shop there.
and last but not least...
ANY ADDITIONAL POSTS BELOW THIS ONE WHICH ARE NOT NEWSWORTHY - WILL BE DELETED. No more rants and raves. Thank you.
Thank you for deleting my post which was above yours.
Your elementary analysis of the situation surely merits great praise.
Newsworthy -- I suppose the purpose of the form isn't debate, but only to serve as marketing for developers and corporations?
When Culinaria causes another business to close we'll be sure to post that news.
Your elementary analysis of the situation surely merits great praise.
Newsworthy -- I suppose the purpose of the form isn't debate, but only to serve as marketing for developers and corporations?
When Culinaria causes another business to close we'll be sure to post that news.
I picked up some good wine there at an awesome price. This is certainly something that Schnucks can provide with their buying power. Frankly, the people who have decided to settle downtown need the luxury of having a good place to shop within walking distance and we have that.
If city center becomes a reality........oh baby.....
If city center becomes a reality........oh baby.....
They're located on the century building's grave.JCity wrote:doug, are you anti Culinaria? is this a joke?
A recent update. The article talks about Paul from Expresso Mod taking a job in California. He actually has been working there for almost a year and a half. He had to to support his family. As he states in the article, he was barely making it with his coffee shop. The article goes on to discuss other owners who are feeling the pinch.
http://www.stlbeacon.org/region/downtow ... to_survive
http://www.stlbeacon.org/region/downtow ... to_survive
I think we have to realize that it is also WINTER and businesses all struggle this time of year.