What a great photo! Looks like a bunch of gangsters queuing up for a bank robbery.
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I think it's great that St. Louis is getting a trolley. I'd love to ride it when it's completed.
But I have a question ... here in Kansas City, shop/restaurant owners have complained since their own trolley construction began. The construction has cut off easy access to their stores and many say that they were/are in serious danger of going under. Several, according to articles, already have.
The process is taking longer than they were told it was going to, and that's what has got them so upset. The reason for that is that Kansas City is also replacing, I believe it's sewer pipes (or something like that), that have been in use since the 1890s (or something like that). They did those changes while putting in the tracks.
Are the same things happening in St. Louis? Are store owners stressing about their ability to survive the construction period? Is the Loop still easily accessible?
Here in Kansas City, there were organized groups of people that would go to the struggling restaurants/shops and eat or make purchases to help them out. For instance, the group might decide to eat at Affare one day, but then go to Michael Smith's the next time they went out. And then the next time, they might go to a Boutique. I thought that was cool.
Right now, the River Market area in Kansas City is so difficult to navigate. I went into it last night and found that several streets had been blocked off. For a while there, the same was true of Crossroads and the South Loop. That's where most of the complaining was coming from anyway. But I understood all of their concerns. It required serious effort to go to a restaurant in the area during the months of peak construction. You basically had to walk through a construction zone to get into them, and then eat with jackhammers pounding away right outside the window.
However, I think the restaurants/shops that managed to survive will very much welcome the street car now that it is approaching completion. The restaurants/shops that moved in because another was lost to the process will be able to enjoy it without ever experiencing the headaches, but I do feel bad for the businesses that couldn't stay afloat.
But I have a question ... here in Kansas City, shop/restaurant owners have complained since their own trolley construction began. The construction has cut off easy access to their stores and many say that they were/are in serious danger of going under. Several, according to articles, already have.
The process is taking longer than they were told it was going to, and that's what has got them so upset. The reason for that is that Kansas City is also replacing, I believe it's sewer pipes (or something like that), that have been in use since the 1890s (or something like that). They did those changes while putting in the tracks.
Are the same things happening in St. Louis? Are store owners stressing about their ability to survive the construction period? Is the Loop still easily accessible?
Here in Kansas City, there were organized groups of people that would go to the struggling restaurants/shops and eat or make purchases to help them out. For instance, the group might decide to eat at Affare one day, but then go to Michael Smith's the next time they went out. And then the next time, they might go to a Boutique. I thought that was cool.
Right now, the River Market area in Kansas City is so difficult to navigate. I went into it last night and found that several streets had been blocked off. For a while there, the same was true of Crossroads and the South Loop. That's where most of the complaining was coming from anyway. But I understood all of their concerns. It required serious effort to go to a restaurant in the area during the months of peak construction. You basically had to walk through a construction zone to get into them, and then eat with jackhammers pounding away right outside the window.
However, I think the restaurants/shops that managed to survive will very much welcome the street car now that it is approaching completion. The restaurants/shops that moved in because another was lost to the process will be able to enjoy it without ever experiencing the headaches, but I do feel bad for the businesses that couldn't stay afloat.
Yes they are worried. That hasn't stopped new places from opening or existing places form expanding in the lead up to the construction commencing. I'm sure if any close the construction will get some blame.
Of bigger concern should be the occasional gunfire on Delmar.
Of bigger concern should be the occasional gunfire on Delmar.
Decaying City Just Wants To Skip To Part Where It Gets Revitalized Restaurant Scene
http://www.theonion.com/article/decayin ... ts-r-50409
http://www.theonion.com/article/decayin ... ts-r-50409
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I remember when construction of the Metro was happening in our downtown. Specifically the cut and cover method for the station at Washington and Sixth caused extended disruption to numerous business around and in St. Louis Centre. I know of three street level shops that failed as a direct result of street closures. People tend to overlook this as a contributing factor to the vacancies in
Okay.......I think I am a vintage trolley convert.
Needless to say, I was more than a little disappointed when the Loop Trolley system decided on vintage cars instead of modern cars.
However, the more I've come to see streetcar projects - both completed and under construction across the country - the more I realize they all look the same. Nice sleek, sure, but for many of them the only difference are the liveries on the cars.
A lot of the cars from Seattle, Atlanta, Portland, DC, Detroit, Cincinnati and even Kansas City's look alike - even with different liveries on them. Not to be a hater, but there's nothing significantly "special" in their car designs.
And the more I assess the vintage Portland cars to be used for the Loop Trolley, the more I'm inclined to believe the cars, with an updated livery, could be the perfect fit for the vintage 2.2-miles it will travel.
I'm over the fence, but don't be surprised if I regress and jump back on the other side.
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Needless to say, I was more than a little disappointed when the Loop Trolley system decided on vintage cars instead of modern cars.
However, the more I've come to see streetcar projects - both completed and under construction across the country - the more I realize they all look the same. Nice sleek, sure, but for many of them the only difference are the liveries on the cars.
A lot of the cars from Seattle, Atlanta, Portland, DC, Detroit, Cincinnati and even Kansas City's look alike - even with different liveries on them. Not to be a hater, but there's nothing significantly "special" in their car designs.
And the more I assess the vintage Portland cars to be used for the Loop Trolley, the more I'm inclined to believe the cars, with an updated livery, could be the perfect fit for the vintage 2.2-miles it will travel.
I'm over the fence, but don't be surprised if I regress and jump back on the other side.
Any word on the trolley line's shelters?
Seems as if the trolley is going to be vintage, then the line's shelters should be same.
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Seems as if the trolley is going to be vintage, then the line's shelters should be same.
The one that stands out from the pack the most, in my opinion, is Atlanta's.
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Washington D.C.
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Atlanta
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Seattle
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Cincinnati
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Kansas City
Washington D.C.
Atlanta
Seattle
Cincinnati
Kansas City
Ok, so here is my take as well.
Vintage on the loop trolley is awesome. It looks the part , if you will. STL already has an amazing METRO system - for over 22 years! We actually were ahead of the curve in LRT... this being said, STL didn't really know "how" to build METRO at first as a transit system using LRT. This is seriously true... I have actually talked to many that were in the stages of designing METRO. When STL approved and decided to build METRO it was in the late 1980's and to fruition in 93. When they were looking to use LRT ... only a handful of cities in North America were using it (I/e Boston/Cleveland). Both those cities were running LRT on right away as well. So, when METRO was finally built - it's design was more "hard" rail mass transit - this meaning NO at grade stations, all right-away track (no street running or in traffic), in subway tunnels and at higher speeds. So thus, walla - St. Louis built a mass transit system using LRT technology. Well, STLians liked this and they also go use to this. We wait for trains on elevated platforms with on-time/scheduled trains and connections (and also almost every 10 minutes throughout the day) and no street traffic/running - putting our population on an efficient mass transit system that is fast and easy.
But then the idea turned more to LRT as streetcar transit. Places like Portland, Dallas, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, etc... began building LRT in the streets and traffic running cars (following the exact same street rules / lights as traffic). This makes the trains slow and sluggish. You might as well ride a bus IMO. When I have to ride these systems, I want to scream sometimes because they are so dang slow. I can actually drive or walk (sometimes) faster than the train. I was just in Minneapolis and rode their LRT to downtown. It took FOREVER! I took a taxi back in 10 minutes.
So back to The Loop Trolley...
I far prefer this. It will most likely be faster (less rail cars) than most LRT systems. It will be nostalgic - just like the old loop streetcars of the day. It screams STL and the district (clang clang clang goes the trolley)... the look awesome, and they will attract more people to catch the trolley from the METRO station and transfer to the loop that way (than onto a slow street running LRT modern train). I far more want to take the METRO to Forest Park and catch the trolley and am far ore likely to do that (as I think most will be) than just taking the METRO to Delmar Station and walking into the loop. The loop will be soooo connected to mass transit (with three METRO stations all connected and trolley too).
I for one, love it!
Vintage on the loop trolley is awesome. It looks the part , if you will. STL already has an amazing METRO system - for over 22 years! We actually were ahead of the curve in LRT... this being said, STL didn't really know "how" to build METRO at first as a transit system using LRT. This is seriously true... I have actually talked to many that were in the stages of designing METRO. When STL approved and decided to build METRO it was in the late 1980's and to fruition in 93. When they were looking to use LRT ... only a handful of cities in North America were using it (I/e Boston/Cleveland). Both those cities were running LRT on right away as well. So, when METRO was finally built - it's design was more "hard" rail mass transit - this meaning NO at grade stations, all right-away track (no street running or in traffic), in subway tunnels and at higher speeds. So thus, walla - St. Louis built a mass transit system using LRT technology. Well, STLians liked this and they also go use to this. We wait for trains on elevated platforms with on-time/scheduled trains and connections (and also almost every 10 minutes throughout the day) and no street traffic/running - putting our population on an efficient mass transit system that is fast and easy.
But then the idea turned more to LRT as streetcar transit. Places like Portland, Dallas, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, etc... began building LRT in the streets and traffic running cars (following the exact same street rules / lights as traffic). This makes the trains slow and sluggish. You might as well ride a bus IMO. When I have to ride these systems, I want to scream sometimes because they are so dang slow. I can actually drive or walk (sometimes) faster than the train. I was just in Minneapolis and rode their LRT to downtown. It took FOREVER! I took a taxi back in 10 minutes.
So back to The Loop Trolley...
I far prefer this. It will most likely be faster (less rail cars) than most LRT systems. It will be nostalgic - just like the old loop streetcars of the day. It screams STL and the district (clang clang clang goes the trolley)... the look awesome, and they will attract more people to catch the trolley from the METRO station and transfer to the loop that way (than onto a slow street running LRT modern train). I far more want to take the METRO to Forest Park and catch the trolley and am far ore likely to do that (as I think most will be) than just taking the METRO to Delmar Station and walking into the loop. The loop will be soooo connected to mass transit (with three METRO stations all connected and trolley too).
I for one, love it!
That's the best looking coach stop I've ever seen. It reminds of the pavillions in Tower Grove Park, which makes me think those would look phenomenal along the north side of Arsenal between Grand & Kingshighway as bus stops for the 30. Slight improvement over:arch city wrote:Any word on the trolley line's shelters?
Seems as if the trolley is going to be vintage, then the line's shelters should be same.
and 
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Took the trolley in New Orleans last week. It was slow. It was hot and it was packed with tourists like me.
Very good thoughts about light rail!matguy70 wrote:Ok, so here is my take as well.
Vintage on the loop trolley is awesome. It looks the part , if you will. STL already has an amazing METRO system - for over 22 years! We actually were ahead of the curve in LRT... this being said, STL didn't really know "how" to build METRO at first as a transit system using LRT. This is seriously true... I have actually talked to many that were in the stages of designing METRO. When STL approved and decided to build METRO it was in the late 1980's and to fruition in 93. When they were looking to use LRT ... only a handful of cities in North America were using it (I/e Boston/Cleveland). Both those cities were running LRT on right away as well. So, when METRO was finally built - it's design was more "hard" rail mass transit - this meaning NO at grade stations, all right-away track (no street running or in traffic), in subway tunnels and at higher speeds. So thus, walla - St. Louis built a mass transit system using LRT technology. Well, STLians liked this and they also go use to this. We wait for trains on elevated platforms with on-time/scheduled trains and connections (and also almost every 10 minutes throughout the day) and no street traffic/running - putting our population on an efficient mass transit system that is fast and easy.
But then the idea turned more to LRT as streetcar transit. Places like Portland, Dallas, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, etc... began building LRT in the streets and traffic running cars (following the exact same street rules / lights as traffic). This makes the trains slow and sluggish. You might as well ride a bus IMO. When I have to ride these systems, I want to scream sometimes because they are so dang slow. I can actually drive or walk (sometimes) faster than the train. I was just in Minneapolis and rode their LRT to downtown. It took FOREVER! I took a taxi back in 10 minutes.
So back to The Loop Trolley...
I far prefer this. It will most likely be faster (less rail cars) than most LRT systems. It will be nostalgic - just like the old loop streetcars of the day. It screams STL and the district (clang clang clang goes the trolley)... the look awesome, and they will attract more people to catch the trolley from the METRO station and transfer to the loop that way (than onto a slow street running LRT modern train). I far more want to take the METRO to Forest Park and catch the trolley and am far ore likely to do that (as I think most will be) than just taking the METRO to Delmar Station and walking into the loop. The loop will be soooo connected to mass transit (with three METRO stations all connected and trolley too).
I for one, love it!
matguy70 wrote:The loop will be soooo connected to mass transit (with three METRO stations all connected and trolley too).
I for one, love it!
Do we know yet how the Loop Trolley will operate? I've said it before, but if it's not in some way integrated into the Metro system (be it under that umbrella or some kind of partnership) it will be a big miss.
Being near Metro isn't as great of a thing if you have to hope off Metro and then spend another few bucks on a Trolley ticket.
I really hope they are able to work something out where people who buy month or semester passes, along with those that buy 2 hour passes, are able to ride the trolley. Otherwise it's just going to be too expensive.
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A bit if an update on the Loop Fiber project:
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/06/17/ ... n-to-plan/
Hopefully this helps light up redevelopment and infill. And as with the actual trolley line, I hope it can be extended further down Delmar into the CWE.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/06/17/ ... n-to-plan/
Hopefully this helps light up redevelopment and infill. And as with the actual trolley line, I hope it can be extended further down Delmar into the CWE.
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^ from that article:
i wonder if any of that was actually said by "European technology company".Sandel says a technology center in Europe called him and said they were interested in moving when they heard about The Loop’s ‘coolness’.
“(The European technology company) said it was three things,” Sandel says. “We want to have access to the talent that’s in the Delmar Loop area, we want to have access to high speed and we want employees to enjoy the coolness of the neighborhood.”
They've begun work on the street trackage in the Loop. Looks like they plan to do two blocks at a time.
LOL!!urban_dilettante wrote:“(The European technology company) said it was three things,” Sandel says. “We want to have access to the talent that’s in the Delmar Loop area, we want to have access to high speed and we want employees to enjoy the coolness of the neighborhood.”
i wonder if any of that was actually said by "European technology company".
I wondered the same.
Not sure if that conversation happened or not, but Sandel definitely has a vested interest in The Loop Media Hub. True or not, he has to plant seeds. Regardless, I appreciate him trying to galvanize.
I'm pretty sure I saw a big pile of old streetcar tracks being dug up on Delmar yesterday! History really does repeat itself!
Indeed.stlgasm wrote:History really does repeat itself!
From it's first tracks;
to first being paved;
to being paved with tracks;
to no longer having tracks;
to today;
history has a funny way of repeating itself.
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Great post, Wabash!wabash wrote:history has a funny way of repeating itself.