I foresee it being extended through Forest Park someday, making stops at the Zoo, Art Museum, etc, where it can function more as an attraction that provides a playful transportation option for visitors, rather than a serious transit line.
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Disturbing park land is a huge hurdle these days to get environmental clearance
- 2,430
The great start of the Kansas City Streetcar has me convinced that we shouldn't poo-poo the Saint Louis Streetcar... if we could get that going with a similar financing system like KC has I think it would be a fantastic asset. If proved true, we could then look at connecting the end of the line in CWE to the Delmar Loop Trolley line.
But w/o Saint Louis Streetcar I don't think it would be realistic for the Loop Trolley to be extended into CWE unless it somehow produced amazing, unexpected results.
But w/o Saint Louis Streetcar I don't think it would be realistic for the Loop Trolley to be extended into CWE unless it somehow produced amazing, unexpected results.
I personally wouldn't want to see the Loop Trolley extended unless it stretched down Delmar to Kingshighway and looped back up to DeBaliviere via Lindell. Nonetheless, I think the 2.2-mile line is going to work out perfectly.
It's vintage, niche and I expect visitors, tourists and locals alike to ride it. Count me in. Not many cities have vintage fixed-track trollies left.
Back in the day, one of the first things I wanted to do for my initial New Orleans experience was take a trolley ride.
A few generations of St. Louisans, including my own, were not around to see vintage trolleys/streetcars speeding and swinging around town.
I think this will be cool. I also think there is more to come in regards to new development because of this line.
And to say The Loop is not going anywhere is an insult, I think, to local backers, brokers and feds who pushed for and financed this line.
Imagine being in the westernmost part of the Delmar Loop, but needing to get to a boutique or shop in the East Loop. The trolley could zip you there. Or imagine living at 6105 Delmar while having just bought groceries at United Provisions. The trolley comes and helps you out, zips you right to your front door.
Let's remember there were Kansas Citians who complained about their 2.0-modern street car being a "toy" too, but look at it now. Granted MetroLink has been around longer than many major lightrail systems in the country, the same was said about MetroLink too. "It was touristy". "It was a toy". Now look at it.
That said, I'm okay with the limitations to be offered by Loop Trolley. I think it will add to the growth and vibrancy of the Delmar Loop.
It's vintage, niche and I expect visitors, tourists and locals alike to ride it. Count me in. Not many cities have vintage fixed-track trollies left.
Back in the day, one of the first things I wanted to do for my initial New Orleans experience was take a trolley ride.
A few generations of St. Louisans, including my own, were not around to see vintage trolleys/streetcars speeding and swinging around town.
I think this will be cool. I also think there is more to come in regards to new development because of this line.
And to say The Loop is not going anywhere is an insult, I think, to local backers, brokers and feds who pushed for and financed this line.
Imagine being in the westernmost part of the Delmar Loop, but needing to get to a boutique or shop in the East Loop. The trolley could zip you there. Or imagine living at 6105 Delmar while having just bought groceries at United Provisions. The trolley comes and helps you out, zips you right to your front door.
Let's remember there were Kansas Citians who complained about their 2.0-modern street car being a "toy" too, but look at it now. Granted MetroLink has been around longer than many major lightrail systems in the country, the same was said about MetroLink too. "It was touristy". "It was a toy". Now look at it.
That said, I'm okay with the limitations to be offered by Loop Trolley. I think it will add to the growth and vibrancy of the Delmar Loop.
I think the KC Streetcar has got to be one of the most controversial funded system in the country. 200 million dollars for 2 miles. It was outrages - and it was voted on in a special district and special financing base from the city. Sure it is doing ok - it has been open less than a month and it is free. It also has had several accidents already. UGH. But all in all... I think that it is very slow. In fact, if I lived there I would still take the MAX bus running the same way as it is faster and stops less. 
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Metrolink is about 3000% bigger than KC streetcar. And KC streetcar at its current length is a toy and or a gimmick. Majority of the riders drive to it and ride it up and down a road
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^ KC Streetcar has a different function than Metrolink and it's far from a gimmick; it's a great asset helping turn Greater Downtown into a truly vibrant area. Saint Louis Streetcar could do the same as well.
^ As actual transit KC streetcar is an absolute gimmick. It's somewhat working as an economic driver because Kansas Citians are flocking to it as if it's some futuristic technology from another planet.
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I'd rather see gold-standard BRT on Grand or Olive or something, and see where that takes us.
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^^ Obviously KC Streetcar is a short line that backers hope to expand (and it looks like it probably will down to Country Club Plaza as property owners have already endorsed it) but it still is a legit transportation mode traversing very popular districts within the tight core. Walking from River Market to Crossroads or Union Station just isn't something most people are going to do anymore than they do here from downtown to Grand Center.
Bringing the convo back to Delmar Loop Trolley, the advantage of KC Streetcar (or Saint Louis Streetcar) is that while the length roughly may be the same, the density and number of destinations along the way is much, much higher. That's not to say the DLT won't achieve its purpose, but the volume just won't be the same.
Bringing the convo back to Delmar Loop Trolley, the advantage of KC Streetcar (or Saint Louis Streetcar) is that while the length roughly may be the same, the density and number of destinations along the way is much, much higher. That's not to say the DLT won't achieve its purpose, but the volume just won't be the same.
^I agree that the purpose of the Loop Trolley is always important to keep in mind. Retailers' sales and developers' investments will be the ultimate determiner of whether the Loop Trolley is a success, not ridership.
On that note, we still have a lot of work to do to develop the eastern end of the Loop Trolley track as it is. There's still plenty of eyesores and dingy-looking gas stations along that route, and it doesn't really paint a flattering picture of St. Louis. I hate to say it, but your typical tourist is going to be scared to ride portions of that at first. There's been some progress over the last two years, but there's still a ways to go. Hopefully, the prospect of making the trolley work will spur more development fairly quickly.
The BP looks a lot better after it was rebuilt.
My dream for the corner across Goodfellow is a 3-4 story building with an Ace Hardware.
My dream for the corner across Goodfellow is a 3-4 story building with an Ace Hardware.
Plenty of development opportunities along Delmar, and even more potential for DeBaliviere Ave. Lots of vacant land hungry for development. Maybe the long-dormant proposal for TOD in place of the Metro parking lot could happen. The DeBaliviere Strip thrived in the streetcar age-- maybe this trolley could actually kickstart the anemic progress of this important and well-located thoroughfare.
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went to Mission Taco last night and was shocked how unkept Delmar is.....trashcan in front of Froyo had about 1,000 froyo cups in it and around it...other trashcans were overfilled and papers flying around
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So we can past urls in the body of our posts but can't use the old brackets?
Anyway, is this clever or stupid?
http://www.stlrag.com/home/2016/6/6/6xb ... nlktc2uy5w
Anyway, is this clever or stupid?
http://www.stlrag.com/home/2016/6/6/6xb ... nlktc2uy5w
^ Based on the history of the Loop Trolley and contents of a post I've neglected to publish for the last 2 months, it took me a while to realize that the linked to article was satire.
Stupid!
I mean, we all know it would cost less to resize the truck assemblies on the trollies to the 'incorrect' gauge!!
Seems like satire targeted to STLToday commenters.
I mean, we all know it would cost less to resize the truck assemblies on the trollies to the 'incorrect' gauge!!
Seems like satire targeted to STLToday commenters.
"Kansas Citians flocking to it as if it's some futuristic technology from another planet."........
To me, that is a sign of a youthful city.
St. Louisans take its rapid transit for granted, which is probably why it has taken so long to expand again. Perhaps the same attitude may happen in KC over time, but it's fun to see their excitement. That excitement trickles down to other local endeavors.
I'm a middle-aged youngster and I can't wait for the Loop Trolley to be finished.
I see The Loop getting more pedestrians because of this trolley.
To me, that is a sign of a youthful city.
St. Louisans take its rapid transit for granted, which is probably why it has taken so long to expand again. Perhaps the same attitude may happen in KC over time, but it's fun to see their excitement. That excitement trickles down to other local endeavors.
I'm a middle-aged youngster and I can't wait for the Loop Trolley to be finished.
I see The Loop getting more pedestrians because of this trolley.
"Metrolink is about 3000% bigger than KC streetcar. And KC streetcar at its current length is a toy and or a gimmick. Majority of the riders drive to it and ride it up and down a road"............
LOL! Funny, but don't hate.
Same in St. Louis.........MetroLink has park and rides.
LOL! Funny, but don't hate.
Same in St. Louis.........MetroLink has park and rides.
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I thought the last bit was pretty brilliant.
To avoid the hassle of continued road construction along Delmar, he suggests parking at The History Museum and taking the Metrolink to access the shopping & entertainment district.
“It's really a great transportation service already in place, perfect for getting from Forest Park to The Loop.”
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this. same thing happening here in the Denver area with all their light rail expansion. young people are riding the sh*t out of it.arch city wrote:"Kansas Citians flocking to it as if it's some futuristic technology from another planet."........
To me, that is a sign of a youthful city.
St. Louisans take its rapid transit for granted, which is probably why it has taken so long to expand again. Perhaps the same attitude may happen in KC over time, but it's fun to see their excitement. That excitement trickles down to other local endeavors.
I'm a middle-aged youngster and I can't wait for the Loop Trolley to be finished.
I see The Loop getting more pedestrians because of this trolley.
unfortunately the ( youthful energy and excitement ) / ( jaded old farts who love to sh*t on everything ) ratio is just too high in St. Louis to get anything done.
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I've heard a lot of good things about the one in Denver, but I was there for awhile and a lot of the stops just have vacant land next to them. It doesn't look like anything was getting built in these parcels, either. No construction equipment, just tall, uncut grass. I mean, even within just a few minutes from Downtown, even. I don't know why such a popular light-rail in a city as youthful and booming as Denver would have so many underdeveloped parcels near its stations.urban_dilettante wrote:this. same thing happening here in the Denver area with all their light rail expansion. young people are riding the sh*t out of it.arch city wrote:"Kansas Citians flocking to it as if it's some futuristic technology from another planet."........
To me, that is a sign of a youthful city.
St. Louisans take its rapid transit for granted, which is probably why it has taken so long to expand again. Perhaps the same attitude may happen in KC over time, but it's fun to see their excitement. That excitement trickles down to other local endeavors.
I'm a middle-aged youngster and I can't wait for the Loop Trolley to be finished.
I see The Loop getting more pedestrians because of this trolley.
unfortunately the ( youthful energy and excitement ) / ( jaded old farts who love to sh*t on everything ) ratio is just too high in St. Louis to get anything done.
- 3,762
^ can you be more specific re "a lot of the stops" and which way you were riding? much of the system is still very new. it's going to take a while for construction to catch up, but at the rate Denver is growing that probably won't take long. Denver metro is a strange cluster of little cities—separated by prairie—orbiting Denver and lots of people commute between them. despite the empty space, their ridership is about double that of Metrolink for a metropolitan area that only recently edged past St. Louis in population.
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They've cleared quite a bit of land on the west side of DeBaliviere, north of Winter Garden, where that MB Church wasn't anymore.
The fundamental problem at Delmar/DeBaliviere probably cannot be overcome, which is that the bus depot creates like half a mile of dead frontage.
The fundamental problem at Delmar/DeBaliviere probably cannot be overcome, which is that the bus depot creates like half a mile of dead frontage.