Using streetmix, this is the best depiction I could come up with of the Loop Trolley east of Skinker. Traffic lanes are obviously not this narrow, but I made them like this to more accurately depict just how close the streetcar will be to parallel parking.
Does anyone know how fares will be collected? Will they integrate with Metro's new smart card? Will there be free transfers between buses or MetroLink?
Randy wrote:Does anyone know how fares will be collected? Will they integrate with Metro's new smart card? Will there be free transfers between buses or MetroLink?
I think operators will be forced to either integrate it with Metro's fare system, or make it free. When I get off Metrolink at Delmar, I'm not paying another fare to travel a distance I could easily walk faster.
^I think a good compromise could be charging $1. You want riders to support it to some extent, literally buy into it, and not free-load or take advantage of it (as a few other cities have stuggled with completely free rides). Charging a buck is quick, easy, and I don't think asking too much, even on top of actual Metro fare.
It may not be super useful, as you pointed out, but it's still a service and could be a rather charming and enjoyable one at that. For that reason I think it's not unreasonable to require payment - whether you get to the Loop or Forest Park via Metrolink, Metrobus, car, or foot.
wabash wrote:^I think a good compromise could be charging $1. You want riders to support it to some extent, literally buy into it, and not free-load or take advantage of it (as a few other cities have stuggled with completely free rides). Charging a buck is quick, easy, and I don't think asking too much, even on top of actual Metro fare.
It may not be super useful, as you pointed out, but it's still a service and could be a rather charming and enjoyable one at that. For that reason I think it's not unreasonable to require payment - whether you get to the Loop or Forest Park via Metrolink, Metrobus, car, or foot.
Will that $1 fare support Metro's new smart card system? What about Apply Pay? Contactless credit cards? I have a Commuter Check benefits card, will that work? Anything other than cash?
quincunx wrote:Lots of "Weee no traffic! . . . Oh Crap!" on Skinker this morning
Is the system finished? I was in the loop last week and the tracks seemed to be finished but the overall road surface was terrible. Would have thought that they would have redone the whole street. Aside from not seeing the road markings it was terribly uneven.
They will when the tracks are all laid. Still have the bit across Kingsland and Delmar, Delmar and Skinker, which closed this morning for the installation, Pershing at DeBaliviere and FPP and DeBaliviere.
dbInSouthCity wrote:I thought their financial plan outlined fare recovery. Where did I see it before
Since referencing my own blog is easier than diving through the monstrous environmental assessment report:
Another concern is whether revenue from fares will great enough to support the continued operation of the trolley. A handout distributed at the meeting shows that the Loop Trolley Co. hopes to raise $600,000 or 46% of the trolley’s estimated $1.3 million yearly operating budget from fares. For comparison, the farebox recovery ratio for Metro buses is only about 20%; for MetroLink, almost 30%.
Are the ones leased from Portland not working out?
King5 - Three iconic Seattle waterfront streetcars head to Midwest
The three cars that were sold will eventually go into service on the Heritage Trolley Line, serving the Delmar Loop District and University City, Missouri.
That sign has been there a while. Sucks to get injured so badly. Where's the sign showing a car clipping someone on a moped?
How do other cities manage this situation? How did our ancestors?
They've also trimmed down the width of the streets but left parking, which creates the danger of being struck by someone opening their car door as you ride past them.
East of SKinker that was like 15 years ago, right? When was Delmar west of Skinker narrowed?
I rode in the middle of the lane, splitting the tracks — your average 49cc moped can reach speeds of roughly 40 mph, making it easy to keep up with traffic and therefore safer to take the whole lane while riding rather than stay to the right. I was very near to my destination when a discourteous vehicle decided to pass me on the left, drifting halfway into the turn lane to do so. Its other half was in my lane, dangerously close to my left handlebar.
Instinctively, I moved to the right to avoid getting clipped by the car (that's happened to me before too — it is not fun). In dodging the car, however, I drifted directly into the right-hand track, which promptly took hold of my tire and threw me entirely off-balance and entirely off my bike
And the conclusion he comes to is Tracks are Bad? What about the "discourteous driver" performing an illegal and dangerous maneuver (Why is he passing at all on Delmar? and when you do pass you're supposed to allow bikes and motorcycles a full lane's width) who caused an accident and - I'm assuming here because it wasn't mentioned - drove off?
I'm not much for reading comments, but IMO this guy nails it:
ehecker • a day ago
I'm an avid bicyclist who lives less than 500 feet from those tracks. They are a hazard, like curbs are hazards; like parked cars are hazards; like passing cars can sometimes be hazards depending on the driver. I, too, have broken an elbow because I hit a bicycle hazard/curb I failed to see. And, yet, I didn't whine about the dangers of curbs. In Munich, where tracks exist in the road for their U-bahn, there is usually a dedicated bike right-of-way painted in the expanded sidewalk. That would be a nice addition. Some street parking might have to be taken out to accommodate that, though, and The Loop is a bit short on parking, in general. When you get on a bicycle, you engage in a hazardous activity, anywhere, anytime. The sign is a good thing. There should be more of them.
I thought the RFT article's question was pretty apt. I was biking down Delmar last weekend and was worried I'd wipe out myself by getting my wheel caught in the track. It would be nice to have some safe bike lanes somewhere along that route.
I also happen to think nobody's going to ride the trolley, because it doesn't go anywhere. Not that I'm opposed to building the tracks, but it really needs to continue on down Delmar to at least the CWE and possibly Grand Center (but if it goes all the way there, it might as well just go all the way downtown at that point). I guess it depends on how its inevitable failure can be spun. No doubt we'll hear a chorus of "see how much of a waste of money public transit is???" There will probably be a bunch of mentions of "boondoggle" in there as well. I hope I'm wrong and am forced to eat crow, but I just can't think of why I would ever need to travel from the history museum to the loop on something that's going to be slower than just taking the red line or even biking. You might get some tourists using it on the weekends in the Summer, but I bet it will be largely empty November through March as a whole, and the rest of the year during the work week.
However, it could spun in a way that takes advantage of the sunk cost fallacy. "We already sunk $50 million into this, and that will all be a waste unless we expand it to go somewhere useful."
Expanding the Loop line would be problematic, I think. Perhaps modern streetcars could run on the line, and maybe there could be signal prioritization, etc., but this line, running to downtown would take a long time. And you still have the issue that getting from Delmar to downtown would be faster by MetroLink - though you would miss some places along the way.