I agree. The Trolley driver should be looking for that and so should the parked car driver. The Trolley driver should stop the Trolley if he/she sees a door, or human, in the way - just like a car or truck would if there was no way to safely swerve left due to traffic.wabash wrote:^If a car parked and a car was coming could the driver open their door? It's basically the same scenario.
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The only reasonable thing to do is allow no parking along Delmar and put in a bike lane. (I'll be taking a break for a bit; see ya'll later!)
You guys- have you seen how close the tracks are to the parked cars?? There's no way in hell a trolley is going to clear the cars parked at the meters, doors closed or not. The wheels of the parallel-parked cars are maybe six inches from the tracks. Well, the body of the trolley is a lot wider than that. It's not happening. The curbs are going to have to be re-done or Delmar is going to resemble a demolition derby on the trolley's opening day.
Ha! The Delmar Loop retail owners would have a heart attackroger wyoming II wrote:The only reasonable thing to do is allow no parking along Delmar and put in a bike lane. (I'll be taking a break for a bit; see ya'll later!)
Was there a reason given as to why the tracks were built close to the curb east of Skinker? They shift away from the curb by the RAC. Why aren't they that far away all the way to Skinker?
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The length that's too close to the curb looks a lot longer than the station.
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Went to the History Museum store and found all this construction going on -- I assume for the Loop Trolley.
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St Louis Loop Trolley in front of History Museum by Gary Kreie, on Flickr
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St Louis Trolley back side of History Museum by Gary Kreie, on Flickr
St Louis Loop Trolley in front of History Museum by Gary Kreie, on Flickr
St Louis Trolley back side of History Museum by Gary Kreie, on FlickrYeah, the work at the Missouri History Museum is supposed to last 5-6 weeks, but they started late, so it might be a while before things are back to normal.
Has anyone seen the over-scaled cobra light poles going in along Delmar ( with soul-crushing harsh LED bulbs I fear) ?
Seriously. They look so out of proportion to the steet, I had visions of 18-wheelers racing down the loop.
Seriously. They look so out of proportion to the steet, I had visions of 18-wheelers racing down the loop.
where is the fiber optic that was to be laid along side of the trolley line??
Very pertinent article in the NY Times. Sounds like a lot of new streetcar systems around the country are falling short of projected ridership levels...
Atlanta Begins Charging for a Streetcar Named Undesirable by Some
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/02/us/at ... share&_r=0
Atlanta Begins Charging for a Streetcar Named Undesirable by Some
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/02/us/at ... share&_r=0
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I think the loop nature hurts it. When I was in Atlanta, I wanted to ride the trolley but couldn't make an excuse because walking between any two stops was faster than waiting and riding, except in very specific circumstances.stlgasm wrote:Very pertinent article in the NY Times. Sounds like a lot of new streetcar systems around the country are falling short of projected ridership levels...
Atlanta Begins Charging for a Streetcar Named Undesirable by Some
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/02/us/at ... share&_r=0
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Something seemed off with that NYT article; is hitting 9/11th of projected ridership in the first year terrible? Sounds like there may have been a few bumps but it sounds far from a disaster except to maybe that Show-Me Institute type think tank and those fearing an auto lane or two taken away if the system expands. If in 5-10 years the thing has little ridership, failed to serve as a redevelopment tool and is a drain on the budget then maybe we can make some stronger conclusions.
MarkHaversham wrote: I think the loop nature hurts it. When I was in Atlanta, I wanted to ride the trolley but couldn't make an excuse because walking between any two stops was faster than waiting and riding, except in very specific circumstances.
Very true. On top of that, the most appealing way to experience the Loop is to walk. I can't think of a scenario where it would be more practical to stand outside Cicero's to wait for a trolley to take me to Meshuggah or the Tivoli or The Moonrise. I'd rather immerse myself in the bustle, people-watch and pop in and out of shops. We can only hope the trolley spurs some new urban developments east of Hodiamont and along DeBaliviere. If new destinations spring up along the route, its utility would be justified.
However, don't mistake my skepticism as being opposed to the trolley. It's far from perfect, but in a state that is actively hostile towards public transit funding, we should take any rail we can get. After all, anything more may very well not present itself in our lifetimes.
I really hope the trolley proves us all wrong- wouldn't it be great if it became a popular and well-loved symbol of the city?
Definitely. But if I was coming from just about anywhere in the Skinker-DeBaliviere neighborhood or the Delmar Metrolink station and heading to Seoul Taco/Craft Alliance/Vintage Vinyl, I'd probably walk there and take everything in and then hop the trolley back.stlgasm wrote:On top of that, the most appealing way to experience the Loop is to walk.
Agreed. The first measure of success of the Loop Trolley will be development east of Des Peres/Hodiamont including DeBaliviere, the second measure will be any foot traffic/visitor/revenue increases for the Loop west of Des Peres/Hodiamont, and the third will be ridership.stlgasm wrote:We can only hope the trolley spurs some new urban developments east of Hodiamont and along DeBaliviere. If new destinations spring up along the route, its utility would be justified.
Unfortunately, the two most important measures are also the hardest to quantify and correlate.
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I agree with everything you said, but I actually meant the fact that the Atlanta track is in a block-wide loop rather than traveling back and forth on the same road, which means you have to do some walking no matter what and then why not just walk the whole thing.stlgasm wrote:MarkHaversham wrote: I think the loop nature hurts it. When I was in Atlanta, I wanted to ride the trolley but couldn't make an excuse because walking between any two stops was faster than waiting and riding, except in very specific circumstances.
Very true. On top of that, the most appealing way to experience the Loop is to walk. I can't think of a scenario where it would be more practical to stand outside Cicero's to wait for a trolley to take me to Meshuggah or the Tivoli or The Moonrise. I'd rather immerse myself in the bustle, people-watch and pop in and out of shops. We can only hope the trolley spurs some new urban developments east of Hodiamont and along DeBaliviere. If new destinations spring up along the route, its utility would be justified.
However, don't mistake my skepticism as being opposed to the trolley. It's far from perfect, but in a state that is actively hostile towards public transit funding, we should take any rail we can get. After all, anything more may very well not present itself in our lifetimes.
I really hope the trolley proves us all wrong- wouldn't it be great if it became a popular and well-loved symbol of the city?
I'm all for development, the resurgence of the city and everything that comes along with solidifying the central corridor and ridding ourselves of all the bureaucracy involved in fragmentation. That said, I am completely baffled that people on this forum continue to debate the validity of the trolley. It's not a valid form of transportation in St. Louis.
The most that we can hope for, I feel, is the presence of the trolley continuing to solidify continued development in East Loop, which I believe will happen. However, it will not be a legitimate form of transportation.
The most that we can hope for, I feel, is the presence of the trolley continuing to solidify continued development in East Loop, which I believe will happen. However, it will not be a legitimate form of transportation.
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I think it's slightly more useful transit than the Zooline railroad.
Zooline + Arch Tram + Screaming Eagle + Carousel @ Faust Park = Loop Trolley
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Maybe the gondolas can scoop you up from the zooline railroad and drop passengers onto the Loop Trolley en route to MetroLink. That's some enviable multimodal transit.