Crime Thread

urban_dilettante · PostDec 14, 2016#64762016-12-14T21:44+00:00

A comment from a crime thread contributor over at Skyscraperpage:

I believe East St. Louis is the worst area in the St. Louis Metro and it is controlled directly by Chicago's gangs who they pay taxes to and where they get their orders from. Many of St. Louis' issues are merely an extension of the Chicago crime empires and are not "worse than it" but are rather a result of it.

Here is an article about the Gangster Disciples and Vice Lords taking over the streets of East St. Louis.

http://www.therealstreetz.com/2015/09/2 ... t-louis-2/

The East St Louis gangs came about with the Chicago gangs of the Vice Lords and the Gangster Disciples being introduced into the city, and eventually given the East St Louis ghetto a reputation of one of the most dangerous places in the country.

With the lack of nearby opportunities and drugs thriving in the urban communities of St. Clair County, the East St Louis ghetto gained a number of negative labels, whether it was the “Murder Capitol” or the “Most Dangerous City”.

Chicago is still ***** us over via East St. Louis.

hebeters2 · PostDec 29, 2016#64772016-12-29T01:37+00:00

Officer Steven Blakeney Terrorized the St. Louis Area. Why Did No One Stop Him?
http://www.riverfronttimes.com/stlouis/ ... lText=true

urban_dilettante · PostDec 29, 2016#64782016-12-29T02:41+00:00

^ wow. every so often the RFT does some fine reporting.

joelo · PostDec 30, 2016#64792016-12-30T15:32+00:00

So did we pass last year's homicide 20 year high? SLPMD hasn't updated since the 27th and it is sitting at 184 compared to 188 last year. I'm pretty sure we're going to exceed it by a couple

Ebsy · PostDec 30, 2016#64802016-12-30T18:19+00:00

Whether we pass the 2015 number is immaterial. There has been no progress in the last 2 years and someone needs to be held accountable. Slay is on his way out, but Dotson is still going to be around next year, and I think it is pretty clear that the next mayor needs to institute new leadership at the SLMPD as soon as possible.

Alex Ihnen · PostDec 30, 2016#64812016-12-30T19:36+00:00

^ There has been no progress over the past 15 years as nearly all major American cities have seen big declines in the number of homicides.

Randy · PostDec 30, 2016#64822016-12-30T20:11+00:00

^ With all of the advancements in technology in places like NYC and London to cut crime, why are we not at least trying similar things here? We can start with ubiquitous CCTV of all the public spaces in downtown with 24/7 central monitoring/smart monitoring, as well as turning back on the gunshot detection system (ShotSpotter).

Obviously this is not a substitute for having police officers walking the streets and working to get illegal guns off the street, but I don't understand why we are not fully utilizing technologies other cities have used for years.

mjbais1489 · PostDec 30, 2016#64832016-12-30T20:13+00:00

Alex Ihnen wrote:^ There has been no progress over the past 15 years as nearly all major American cities have seen big declines in the number of homicides.

True. But in the last 2 years we haven't had the "well if we only had local control" excuse to fall back on. Which is why Dotson is probably on the outs after new mayor, especially if it's Jones.

framer · PostDec 30, 2016#64842016-12-30T20:18+00:00

Shaw residents are trying to raise funds to install video surveillance in the neighborhood. They're also fighting over whether or not VonDerrit Myers deserves a permanent memorial:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... e5a97.html

True_dope · PostDec 30, 2016#64852016-12-30T21:57+00:00

framer wrote:Shaw residents are trying to raise funds to install video surveillance in the neighborhood. They're also fighting over whether or not VonDerrit Myers deserves a permanent memorial:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... e5a97.html

I am tempted to Grab my hammer and crow bar and do it my self. Why have a memorial to this guy? I mean come on he was a criminal who every payed for it is the living stereotype for liberals.

mjbais1489 · PostDec 31, 2016#64862016-12-31T08:22+00:00

True_dope wrote:
framer wrote:Shaw residents are trying to raise funds to install video surveillance in the neighborhood. They're also fighting over whether or not VonDerrit Myers deserves a permanent memorial:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... e5a97.html
I am tempted to Grab my hammer and crow bar and do it my self. Why have a memorial to this guy? I mean come on he was a criminal who every payed for it is the living stereotype for liberals.

As a liberal who lives in Shaw this is a fascinating discussion. I don't love the memorial or the trouble it seems to have brought, I also understand the point some people are trying to make by having the memorial - that victims don't need to be perfect to be fought for. Just because someone's made mistakes doesn't mean it's okay if their life is taken.

Not sure I fully agree on this case ( especially if the cops version is true) but it's really interesting - no one is fully right in my opinion but at the end of the day I think you have to listen to residents on this case.

downtown2007 · PostDec 31, 2016#64872016-12-31T17:18+00:00

They could eliminate a large portion of these problems if they closed the market. That seems to be attracting individuals involved in these incidents.

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andrewarkills · PostJan 03, 2017#64882017-01-03T02:11+00:00

downtown2007 wrote:They could eliminate a large portion of these problems if they closed the market. That seems to be attracting individuals involved in these incidents.

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The market is actually owned by one of the most stand up people in the neighborhood. He actively engages and wants to be part of the community, as well as a part of the solutions to the issues it faces.

It's one of the few places in Shaw people with nothing to do congregate because of the fact that it is a welcoming place. A better solution may be to develop one or two of the vacant corner storefronts in the neighborhood as full time community/job training/after-school centers.

downtown2007 · PostJan 03, 2017#64892017-01-03T15:52+00:00

Close the market. It's generating bad press for the neighborhood and for some reason attracts a bad element. Or he restricts them somehow from loitering in front of the store.

Shaw Market is the source of the problem.

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andrewarkills · PostJan 03, 2017#64902017-01-03T16:02+00:00

downtown2007 wrote:Close the market. It's generating bad press for the neighborhood and for some reason attracts a bad element. Or he restricts them somehow from loitering in front of the store.

Shaw Market is the source of the problem.

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No, what happens outside is a symptom of a larger issue. I don't think that chasing good, solid businesses out of neighborhoods because the City has no cohesive public safety policy is a precedent we should set.

Strong small businesses in a neighborhood anchor them. Running them out weakens the fabric of the neighborhood.

downtown2007 · PostJan 03, 2017#64912017-01-03T16:17+00:00

Chasing out good solid businesses? You mean the ones that attract crime and nefarious individuals? LOL

Look I am sure he is a nice guy but he has proven incapable of running that market. No reason the entire neighborhood should suffer just to protect a small market.

Shaws problems will continue until the market closes.

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andrewarkills · PostJan 03, 2017#64922017-01-03T16:47+00:00

downtown2007 wrote:Chasing out good solid businesses? You mean the ones that attract crime and nefarious individuals? LOL

Look I am sure he is a nice guy but he has proven incapable of running that market. No reason the entire neighborhood should suffer just to protect a small market.

Shaws problems will continue until the market closes.

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It doesn't attract that type of element intentionally. It IS the only place in the interior of the neighborhood where one can buy affordable, fresh, quality food quickly. It's also at a busy intersection, near an entrance to a neighborhood that literally has 5 ways in and out.

The market isn't the problem. Lack of a plan to combat crime city-wide, and numerous other systemic issues are.
People up to no good who congregate there won't just disappear if the market closes, they'll just move on to something else. The market is not the issue, and we can't expect every small business in the City to pay for private security because the city has no plan to address public safety long term.

gregl · PostJan 03, 2017#64932017-01-03T16:54+00:00

RFT said that the murder count in 2016 was 188, matching the 2015 count.

Greg

STLrainbow · PostJan 03, 2017#64942017-01-03T17:22+00:00

^ Deeply disappointing and I'm pretty sure that will mean we repeat as having the highest homicide rate for larger cities once again.

joelo · PostJan 03, 2017#64952017-01-03T17:42+00:00

Most likely and even the nicer neighborhoods are seeing substantial increases in crime whether poverty or person crimes. New police chief would be a start.

hiddeninput · PostJan 03, 2017#64962017-01-03T18:50+00:00

I've lived in the same condo in the city for eight years and the past 18 months or so are the first time I've really felt like I was living in an unsafe area. My building has been broken into three times in that period (versus none previously) and nextdoor is filled with stories about similar problems from those around me. I certainly don't want to equate the problems I'm seeing to the homicide problem in the city, but the trend line seems to be getting worse for all crimes across the board. If Dotson knows how to solve these problems, he's keeping the solution to himself. More likely, he's as clueless as I am as to how to find a fast resolution to these issues. Even the longer term solution of investment in education and jobs seems to be a challenge for the city at this time. Not sure where we go from here, but clearly the status quo isn't working.

gregl · PostJan 03, 2017#64972017-01-03T19:00+00:00

Actually, overall crime rates in St. Louis fell in 2016 -- continuing a trend for over a decade.

Through November, burglaries are down 23% compared to last year (2973 vs. 3858). Compare those number to 2009, where there were 6,168 burglaries January through November.

I personally believe social media -- whether it be Facebook or Nextdoor -- makes us far more aware of crimes that happen, compared to a decade ago.

Greg

joelo · PostJan 03, 2017#64982017-01-03T20:25+00:00

gregl wrote:Actually, overall crime rates in St. Louis fell in 2016 -- continuing a trend for over a decade.

Through November, burglaries are down 23% compared to last year (2973 vs. 3858). Compare those number to 2009, where there were 6,168 burglaries January through November.

I personally believe social media -- whether it be Facebook or Nextdoor -- makes us far more aware of crimes that happen, compared to a decade ago.

Greg

It's substantially down in certain neighborhoods but others are increasing substantially. Depending on how you pull the numbers. January - November this year it's up 21% in the Hill, Lafayette Square 53%, Clifton Heights at 30% while if you use STLtoday's crime tracker those same neighborhoods from June - November are up 52%, 119% and 61% for those neighborhoods. Basically there has been a drop in some of the higher crime areas but the generally lower crime areas are seeing huge increases.

gregl · PostJan 03, 2017#64992017-01-03T21:17+00:00

joelo wrote:It's substantially down in certain neighborhoods but others are increasing substantially. Depending on how you pull the numbers. January - November this year it's up 21% in the Hill, Lafayette Square 53%, Clifton Heights at 30% while if you use STLtoday's crime tracker those same neighborhoods from June - November are up 52%, 119% and 61% for those neighborhoods. Basically there has been a drop in some of the higher crime areas but the generally lower crime areas are seeing huge increases.

The problem with looking neighborhood by neighborhood -- especially at low crime areas -- is that increase in crime will show a high percentage increase. Those 3 neighborhoods account for only about 1.5% of all crime in St. Louis, so a little increase in pure numbers will make a giant difference in percentage.

In those specific neighborhoods, the vast majority of the increase in overall crime is a jump in one or two categories -- such as larcenies from motor vehicles or shoplifting, which could just as easily have happened a block or two in a different direction and therefore in a different neighborhood.

STLrainbow · PostJan 04, 2017#65002017-01-04T02:07+00:00

^ I largely agree with what you're saying... citywide crime is down considerably from ten and even five years ago, particularly with property crimes. And while crime will flare up in some of the "safer" neighborhoods for a period I don't think there is any evidence that any of these particular neighborhoods are seeing a sustained increase.

Taking my nabe, Tower Grove South, e.g., reported Part 1 property crimes are about half of what they were in 2009 and violent crime also is considerably lower, although there has been a 43% increase (representing roughly 4 more incidents a month) over 2015 in that category. If violent crime were to continue to increase by that amount well into this year then I might freak out a bit about Tower Grove crime but I suspect it won't.

Unfortunately, what is alarming is the city has returned to early 90's homicide rates and that simply has to end.

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