You probably don't want to post the realtor's name but I'd be interested to know what company he/she is with. You should really let them know you think the did you a disservice by steering you to Kirkwood.
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Agreemoorlander wrote:You probably don't want to post the realtor's name but I'd be interested to know what company he/she is with. You should really let them know you think the did you a disservice by steering you to Kirkwood.
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I'll be on the street corner handing out one-way tickets to Spanish Lake before I leave. Those days are done I hope.erina wrote:Ok, this is for anyone to answer.
What would be your tipping point to say 'f*** it, I'm moving to the county'.?
An dirty tactic by a realtor for sure but this particular realtor IS trying to sell a house in the County, plus would it be a dirty tactic for a realtor selling a house in Benton Park West not to mention a detailed recent history of crimes within a three block radius?downtown2007 wrote:Agreemoorlander wrote:You probably don't want to post the realtor's name but I'd be interested to know what company he/she is with. You should really let them know you think the did you a disservice by steering you to Kirkwood.
I think you have to do your own research.
I think the market for houses in Kirkwood is pretty good. You should sell it and buy three houses in South City.True_dope wrote:I wish I live in the city but sadly when I first got here my real estate agent keep on steering me in to the county I ask about downtown and and she tole me it was all boarded up and this happen 3 years ago. So being new I believed her and settled in Kirkwood now I feel I would not be able to sell my house for what I payed for it and I am stuck in a town were the downtown is for middle age house wives. Crime is not to much of an issue for me after being robed in NYC and DC buy gun point.
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^ you can't get anything good in St.Louis Hills under 200K... House in Southampton that the couple from Maryland bought went for $209k.... doubt his Kirkwood house is 620k 
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5328- ... 6863_zpid/
what 340K gets you in STL Hills
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Sa ... /?view=map
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5328- ... 6863_zpid/
what 340K gets you in STL Hills
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Sa ... /?view=map
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I'd happily trade you places. I've lived in the city for 11 years, and despite all of the progress, I've seen a lot of things (crime included) get worse during my time here. Kirkwood is still better than all but a handful of St. Louis area suburbs.True_dope wrote:I wish I live in the city but sadly when I first got here my real estate agent keep on steering me in to the county I ask about downtown and and she tole me it was all boarded up and this happen 3 years ago. So being new I believed her and settled in Kirkwood now I feel I would not be able to sell my house for what I payed for it and I am stuck in a town were the downtown is for middle age house wives. Crime is not to much of an issue for me after being robed in NYC and DC buy gun point.
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Yes, let's not kid ourselves. Kirkwood is pretty nice.
Thing is, crime is so incredibly random. I'm getting some more chatter about some other crime stuff (I'm not even actively looking for info) that is bothersome.
It's a minor miracle I've never had a problem with crime besides one very minor property crime. And I'm out there a lot, bumbling stumbling A LOT here in St. Louis and formerly elsewhere and for many years. It's so random. Property crime is so random. Life in St. Louis and other cities with similar demographics is like a game with bad odds. You could lose. You might not but the odds are higher. Some people won't play the game at all simply because the odds suck. I've had friends mugged and jumped. Break ins. Cars stolen. Never happened to me one time and I'm the biggest idiot of them all. I'm walking between the raindrops I guess.
I'll probably be dead in 24 hours now. Goodbye everyone......
Thing is, crime is so incredibly random. I'm getting some more chatter about some other crime stuff (I'm not even actively looking for info) that is bothersome.
It's a minor miracle I've never had a problem with crime besides one very minor property crime. And I'm out there a lot, bumbling stumbling A LOT here in St. Louis and formerly elsewhere and for many years. It's so random. Property crime is so random. Life in St. Louis and other cities with similar demographics is like a game with bad odds. You could lose. You might not but the odds are higher. Some people won't play the game at all simply because the odds suck. I've had friends mugged and jumped. Break ins. Cars stolen. Never happened to me one time and I'm the biggest idiot of them all. I'm walking between the raindrops I guess.
I'll probably be dead in 24 hours now. Goodbye everyone......
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I really enjoyed living in Kirkwood for a time also not far from many of the nice hiking trails ..I've heard rumblings about what happened to the innocent by stander downtown. Apparently he got beat pretty badly. broken nose broken jaw they broke both his eye sockets and this is coming from a credible source. My biggest concern is how can not any person could of seen this coming? Its going to be a huge stereotype for large groups of teens together considered as dangerous.I feel for the guy however this just further tarnishes Downtown Credibility of a place for anyone to live or do business until they get this high crime under control. I wonder if this could be considered as a hate crime? any opinions?
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Criminologists who'd completely disagree with you. They'd say crime isn't random at all.leeharveyawesome wrote:Yes, let's not kid ourselves. Kirkwood is pretty nice.
Thing is, crime is so incredibly random. I'm getting some more chatter about some other crime stuff (I'm not even actively looking for info) that is bothersome.
It's a minor miracle I've never had a problem with crime besides one very minor property crime. And I'm out there a lot, bumbling stumbling A LOT here in St. Louis and formerly elsewhere and for many years. It's so random. Property crime is so random. Life in St. Louis and other cities with similar demographics is like a game with bad odds. You could lose. You might not but the odds are higher. Some people won't play the game at all simply because the odds suck. I've had friends mugged and jumped. Break ins. Cars stolen. Never happened to me one time and I'm the biggest idiot of them all. I'm walking between the raindrops I guess.
I'll probably be dead in 24 hours now. Goodbye everyone......
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Maybe i missed this in the thread but did anyone equate this to the Knock Out Game? Doesn't that usually involve a group of kids and one target? I don't think this was mentioned in the articles i read either and i wasn't sure why.
Very unfortunate situation
Very unfortunate situation
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^ Supposedly in the 'knockout game" you don't steal anything and here they did so who knows. Of course, some people think this happens every day downtown. South Grand area went through this not too long ago and fortunately its seemed to have died down.
I define a Knockout Game incident as one where they just hit someone to try to knock them down/out, but don't demand anything beforehand (it's a surprise), nor take anything from the victim.
This is ja robbery IMO.
This is ja robbery IMO.
For f**ks sake. Three shot today just after rush hour by the Union Station Metrolink.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... e33c7.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... e33c7.html
Kmov had a better story on this and Kmov also had on police are planning having more police presence downtown. Acording to the SBJ downtown partnership is looking into ways to have more police downtownMRNHS wrote:For f**ks sake. Three shot today just after rush hour by the Union Station Metrolink.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... e33c7.html
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog ... owing.html
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Have more police is one thing. Not policing the area in a proactive manner is what everyone down here gets upset with. They only address issues when called upon.
Oh, it's the knockout game but while they were at it, why not steal? Really a standard jumping.
There is ZERO chance, assuming the victim is white or Asian, that the thugs would be charged with a hate crime. That seems to only go one way, especially with Holder. Total joke.
There is ZERO chance, assuming the victim is white or Asian, that the thugs would be charged with a hate crime. That seems to only go one way, especially with Holder. Total joke.
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Seriously, what are the solutions to stopping events like this?
1. More cameras - this seems like a no brainer.
2. Giuliani-esque stop and frisk style crack down - might be politically difficult to implement given current situation.
3. Vigilante justice - despite what the 2nd amendment enthusiasts might constantly repeat, I'm not sure it would actually have a deterrent effect (but it is very emotionally appealing).
4. Mandatory military or community service for all 18 to 20 year olds - long term, this needs to be seriously considered. Let's face it, the type of people who jump a guy in broad daylight have very little connection to a civilized society. For whatever reason, they've never connected the dots between following basic rules and fostering a better environment for everyone. Some mandatory service as a young adult might help foster some "buy in" in civilized society (and for the overwhelming majority of 18 to 20 year olds who already decent human beings, they will get the chance to do some real good for their world/country/community).
1. More cameras - this seems like a no brainer.
2. Giuliani-esque stop and frisk style crack down - might be politically difficult to implement given current situation.
3. Vigilante justice - despite what the 2nd amendment enthusiasts might constantly repeat, I'm not sure it would actually have a deterrent effect (but it is very emotionally appealing).
4. Mandatory military or community service for all 18 to 20 year olds - long term, this needs to be seriously considered. Let's face it, the type of people who jump a guy in broad daylight have very little connection to a civilized society. For whatever reason, they've never connected the dots between following basic rules and fostering a better environment for everyone. Some mandatory service as a young adult might help foster some "buy in" in civilized society (and for the overwhelming majority of 18 to 20 year olds who already decent human beings, they will get the chance to do some real good for their world/country/community).
I think this is an issue everywhere. I have rarely seen patrols in any of the south city neighborhoods I've lived in. Maybe it happens and I don't see it, but I definitely don't feel that I see police patrolling the streets very often.Have more police is one thing. Not policing the area in a proactive manner is what everyone down here gets upset with. They only address issues when called upon.
I often wonder why we just don't have police walking or biking the streets/alleys...wouldn't that be a great way to build trust with the community?
I think just having the police more visible could help a little bit.
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1. I'm putting my libertarian street cred at risk, but yes, the more cameras the better in my opinion.south compton wrote:Seriously, what are the solutions to stopping events like this?
1. More cameras - this seems like a no brainer.
2. Giuliani-esque stop and frisk style crack down - might be politically difficult to implement given current situation.
3. Vigilante justice - despite what the 2nd amendment enthusiasts might constantly repeat, I'm not sure it would actually have a deterrent effect (but it is very emotionally appealing).
4. Mandatory military or community service for all 18 to 20 year olds - long term, this needs to be seriously considered. Let's face it, the type of people who jump a guy in broad daylight have very little connection to a civilized society. For whatever reason, they've never connected the dots between following basic rules and fostering a better environment for everyone. Some mandatory service as a young adult might help foster some "buy in" in civilized society (and for the overwhelming majority of 18 to 20 year olds who already decent human beings, they will get the chance to do some real good for their world/country/community).
2. I say bring it on, but it's politically incorrect, and our leaders are all about political correctness.
3. I agree on both accounts. I'm not sure it's a deterrent, but I also see the emotional appeal.
4. Sounds like a great idea to me- something that really ought to have bipartisan support.
The trouble is, I have ZERO confidence in our leadership, I see no sense of urgency among them, and we're stuck with the current cast of characters in charge of this community and region for the foreseeable future.
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I think 10-year mandatory sentencing (no parole) for any violation of current gun laws on books would do wonders.
^ Make release at the end of the sentence contingent on having earned a C or higher GPA in a completed high school curriculum while in prison.
For the record except #1 I think these are pretty bad ideas, ones which I don't see how any kind of "libertarian" could agree with. More cameras is probably a good thing but someone in here said something to the effect of, "if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide," and that's a very slippery slope and pretty much negates the whole concept of the right to privacy.south compton wrote:Seriously, what are the solutions to stopping events like this?
1. More cameras - this seems like a no brainer.
2. Giuliani-esque stop and frisk style crack down - might be politically difficult to implement given current situation.
3. Vigilante justice - despite what the 2nd amendment enthusiasts might constantly repeat, I'm not sure it would actually have a deterrent effect (but it is very emotionally appealing).
4. Mandatory military or community service for all 18 to 20 year olds - long term, this needs to be seriously considered. Let's face it, the type of people who jump a guy in broad daylight have very little connection to a civilized society. For whatever reason, they've never connected the dots between following basic rules and fostering a better environment for everyone. Some mandatory service as a young adult might help foster some "buy in" in civilized society (and for the overwhelming majority of 18 to 20 year olds who already decent human beings, they will get the chance to do some real good for their world/country/community).
Vigilante justice is seriously being proposed as a solution to crime? I'd rather not have George Zimmerman types running around shooting people. And I don't like the idea of mandatory military service at all. Community service, maybe. But then this falls into that "Clockwork Orange" type deal of trying to force some notion of "morality" and ethical behavior upon people, rather than creating a society in which people are free to choose how to act.
Problems of crime are mostly structural and have to do with poverty and inequality. We shouldn't overreact and pass all these measures that don't even address the problem at its core. I thought people generally wanted less state infringement upon their lives? Especially you as a libertarian, threeonefour. You sound a little more like a neocon to me.
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wustl_eng wrote:
For the record except #1 I think these are pretty bad ideas, ones which I don't see how any kind of "libertarian" could agree with. More cameras is probably a good thing but someone in here said something to the effect of, "if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide," and that's a very slippery slope and pretty much negates the whole concept of the right to privacy.
/quote]
That was me. While I understand that that is a slippery slope and the right to privacy is very important, my right to walk down the street without the fear of getting my face smashed in is also very important. I'd be willing to give up a little privacy to ensure my safety on these mean streets, and I think most others would as well.
Vigilante justice and the right to self defense, which 2nd Amendment supporters advocate for, aren't even remotely the same thing.
And I disagree with compulsory military service. That may work in a nation like Israel where children grow up aware that they are in a constant state of war and that all of their neighbors want to kill them. But doing it here for a social program would severely weaken our fighting ranks.
And I disagree with compulsory military service. That may work in a nation like Israel where children grow up aware that they are in a constant state of war and that all of their neighbors want to kill them. But doing it here for a social program would severely weaken our fighting ranks.
Huh? First, ethics and morality are not the same thing. Thinking about the ethical implications of one's actions, however, can lead a person to some kind of morality, which may be personally driven. As a society, would you not agree that we are better off if people must confront the idea that their actions will have an impact on others, as opposed to just letting people do whatever they want without thinking about others? And that training people to think in that way is beneficial to all of us, as the result will probably be a more considerate and humane society."Clockwork Orange" type deal of trying to force some notion of "morality" and ethical behavior upon people, rather than creating a society in which people are free to choose how to act.
I didn't say they were. But the notion of compulsory community service is an attempt to force people to "do good," which is what I meant. I think society for the most part already does do those things you said, and I think most of it doesn't, and shouldn't, come from the state. People learn right from wrong through socialization into their culture/community, family, religion, education, etc. Though I suppose you could say that education in the form of public schools is an example of the state training people to behave ethically.
And anyway, the problem of people doing what they want without thinking about other people is as old as time. Don't think that's gonna change no matter what.
And anyway, the problem of people doing what they want without thinking about other people is as old as time. Don't think that's gonna change no matter what.