urbanSTL

Q: What has saved thousands of young mostly black lives over the last 10 years?

A: Stop and Frisk.

The real problem is these kids are likely raised in a hostile house hold. The father isn't no where to be around or found and vice versa the mother. These kids/teens simply don't have a true role model that they can look up too!
These kids are born into a environment that aren't conducive for a successful life. Boarded up homes closed schools liquor store on practically every block dangerous alley ways speeding traffic no recreational facility lack of transportation options and there are no jobs to be had and sadly no mother no father. So they turn to strangers likely guns drugs rapes etc. These people who commit these crimes completely can't comprehend on a level like most others. These people are challenged and probably have never had a parent say they loved them. Maybe I'm wrong on all facets of this but i feel like the city is fighting a war thats its going to continue to lose cause of the high poverty rate. As long as young gals and men continue to have enter course and momma gives birth to her first child at a very young age without no type of parenting skills education and job then all of this is going to continue too repeat itself.

I don't think the recent high profile crimes downtown are a symptom from Ferguson. I Notice while crime over all crime is going down criminals are becoming more outgoing and this been happening for a few years now. I think were are in a era were criminals are feeling the clamp of gentrification and new neighbors that would call the police so in stead of trying to turn their life's around they are just clamping down on their life style and not giving a f### about the police or people.

When I was a collage student in the late 90s in NYC was going through the same thing but NYC had people like Rudy Giuliani that were not afraid to bring the war to the criminals.

leeharveyawesome wrote:Q: What has saved thousands of young mostly black lives over the last 10 years?

A: Stop and Frisk.

And where's your evidence for that? Might be some truth to it but I don't think there's data to make that claim.

Stop and frisk is another one of those things that I'd like to hear a libertarian make a case for. You know, the bit in the Constitution about "unreasonable searches" and all. Of course you can make legal justifications for the practice, but that's not really the point.

Why would someone NOT think that criminals are any less aware of the post-Ferguson dynamics than anyone else? Criminals aren't fools or idiots. If you are committed to a life of crime you see that NOW is your chance because the police are working with one hand tied behind their backs out of a fear of the reaction to their shooting of a criminal. Crime is no more random than any other sociological phenomenon.

Anyone's a fool to think that no person in St.Louis is aware of the Ferguson situation heck the whole world is waiting for the volcano to explode here once once the jury has conjured its final verdict.

Arrests have been made in the Attorney beating and the 2 incidents a few weeks back. Man are these kids young and troubled.

Certainly criminals are aware of the Ferguson situation. And certainly most police officers are thinking twice before using force now. (Is this a bad thing?)

But I don't buy into the notion that most of this uptick in violent crime comes as a result of Ferguson or the police officers hesitance. It's not as if we're talking about officers standing by and watching these shootings and beatings take place. They're happening where cops aren't.

I did not say that criminals are not unaware I meant we can not say every crime that happens in downtown or the city or the county is result of Ferguson.

TheNewSaintLouis wrote: Maybe I'm wrong on all facets of this but i feel like the city is fighting a war thats its going to continue to lose cause of the high poverty rate.

Ultimately, you are right. Suggestions like more cameras are really containment methods, not solutions to the underlying problem. But how do you break the cycle of poverty? Right now, a lot of the people referred to as "those people" by other posters are simply not fit for employment (some would likely make excellent employees if given the chance, but many would not).

To put things into perspective, in September of 2013 there were 220 aggravated assaults with a gun and 196 this September and 192 in October. Highway robbery is about the same. Crimes ebb and flow as well as where they happen and in many cases are the result of just a handful of criminals.

Not to say that there exists no "Michael Brown Effect," but the recent uptick is far from unprecedented and likely the result of a variety of factors.

That story is just sad and bizarre in every way. A 13 year old who's pregnant... who's running around beating the sh*t out of random people.

wustl_eng wrote:That story is just sad and bizarre in every way. A 13 year old who's pregnant... who's running around beating the sh*t out of random people.

She'll make a great mother.

And the cycle of poverty and bad parenting* will continue.


I always feel the need to clarify that I'm not saying all parents living in poverty are bad parents. But in a lot of cases, their lack of means and resources almost requires that they can't be great parents. They can work hard and have the best of intentions, but if they're unable to provide resources and one-on-one time with their children, the children are likely to suffer. I don't judge those parents, I simply recognize it's a part of the cycle of poverty.

And then of course, there are some parents who are just truly bad, though it may be a direct or indirect result of their own upbringing. I suspect that may be the case here and unfortunately continue to be the case with this girl's future child.

Confluence Academy school hours end at 3pm. Why are these kids still downtown at 5?

^Usually stable families with good parents teach their children that it's not socially acceptable to attack strangers on the street. I think it's pretty clear that these kids come from less-than-stellar households. I would assume this of anyone who engaged in this kind of behavior, regardless of race or class. Let's not get too sensitive here.

arch city wrote:Some of the comments delve way too deep into "poverty" and family dynamics when we don't know anything about these kids or their families other than what's alleged.

It's called prejudice.

Here's the definition:

prej·u·dice
ˈprejədəs/Submit
noun
1. preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
"English prejudice against foreigners"
synonyms: preconceived idea, preconception, prejudgment
"male prejudices about women"
dislike, hostility, or unjust behavior deriving from unfounded opinions.
"accusations of racial prejudice"
synonyms: bigotry, bias, partisanship, partiality, intolerance, discrimination, unfairness, inequality;

Actually it means it is a deeply troubled individual that is a menace to society regardless of race.

I don't have a clue what the race/ethnicity of the kids that were arrested was. I don't remember seeing it reported (though it may have been).

I may be assuming a bit too much about their current backgrounds, but I don't think it's a huge jump to think a 13-year girl that is pregnant and engaging in violent crime might be on track to engage in the cycle of poverty, whether she originally comes from it or not.

Whether I'm right or not, I'd argue my assumptions are based entirely on reason. That's not prejudice.

^ I absolutely agree. Teenage pregnancy is one of the biggest indicators of/predictors of poverty. It's not a huge leap to make.

Though I do agree in the theory, arch city. Someone said that usually "stable families teach their kids not to do" this kind of stuff but that's not exactly true: rich kids do a lot of bad stuff too, you just don't hear about it as much. Messed up, criminal people can come from any background. But it's also not hard to make the connection that a lot of crime is linked to poverty and difficult family/home situations. There's a lot of research backing that up.