urbanSTL

Sadly, this might be the incident that results in some serious outrage downtown and hopefully elsewhere because alot people knew this guy and he was just incredibly nice and a cool person.



I'm in a slight rage myself.

Not an everyday event downtown, but getting to be an every week event lately. The biggest PR problem with this and the other killings along Market recently is that people who don't live in the city know where they took place. usually, this sh*t happens in some "obscure" part of the north side where hoosiers on StlToday read about it and say "I told you so" but they don't necessarily clearly associate the crime with the parts of the city they use. In the last few cases, we have been talking about Union Station and Maggie O'Briens; places that people know. As such, these crimes will have a disproportionate effect on perception among those who have the sort of limited familiarity with the city that comes from going to Cardinals/Blues games and then running back out to their suburbs/exurbs. Aside from the sickening human cost of these crimes, they are TERRIBLE PR. The worst part is, they probably will never catch any of these guys.

^ Ok, well who shot that guy?

^If that person is indeed one of the pieces of garbage that did this, then good riddance. I wonder how he got shot though.

*comment removed because i felt guilty*

It is amazing how the STLtoday bloggers have focused on the city/county debate, when an innocent guy lost his life over nothing more than some scum of the earth low-life and his need for a few bucks. Reminds me of a high school friend of mine who got shot in 1991 working a drive thru at Church's Chicken. The Thug said give me the money and shot him before he even had a chance to give up the cash. It seems as if they are shooting people for other reasons, besides money. They could have easily got away with the money, no problem, why shoot the guy?

Because they are low life thugs, that do not care. They say

'another dead MF'er, f it' that is their mentality. MAKES me absolutely sick, especially for this guy, his family and girlfriend. Like I said, if you catch'em, hang'em!!!

Why are we so handcuffed to speak bluntly about these episodes? Let's get to the point here: What can be done about black thugs who seek to produce violent crime around our area? Why are the majority of violent crimes in this area, if not a super majority, committed by black men? What can be done to move young black males away from violence?



This kind of BS, performed by these f-ing thugs, will destroy are our already depressed city...DESTROY IT.

^Half of it, the Northside, has already been destroyed. Parts of my beloved Southside have been under siege for years. It is so upsetting to see this great city, so overwhelmed with crime!

sirhanksalot wrote:Why are we so handcuffed to speak bluntly about these episodes? Let's get to the point here: What can be done about black thugs who seek to produce violent crime around our area? Why are the majority of violent crimes in this area, if not a super majority, committed by black men? What can be done to move young black males away from violence?



This kind of BS, performed by these f-ing thugs, will destroy our already depressed city...DESTROY IT.

Well what about slavery? And the mass divestment from North St. Louis? Every action has an equal but opposite reaction. Perhaps it is past time we reinvest in North St. Louis.

TGE-ATW wrote:Not an everyday event downtown, but getting to be an every week event lately. The biggest PR problem with this and the other killings along Market recently is that people who don't live in the city know where they took place. usually, this sh*t happens in some "obscure" part of the north side where hoosiers on StlToday read about it and say "I told you so" but they don't necessarily clearly associate the crime with the parts of the city they use. In the last few cases, we have been talking about Union Station and Maggie O'Briens; places that people know. As such, these crimes will have a disproportionate effect on perception among those who have the sort of limited familiarity with the city that comes from going to Cardinals/Blues games and then running back out to their suburbs/exurbs. Aside from the sickening human cost of these crimes, they are TERRIBLE PR. The worst part is, they probably will never catch any of these guys.

Exactly. The vast majority of STLToday posters have no idea where Labadie or Arlington are, but violent crime on Market Street makes it seem to them like all of downtown has become overrun with criminals.

They really need to remove the comments section on STLtoday just like they did on Yahoo. Yahoo would post an article and within 15 minutes there would 150,000 posts about race and politics and very rarely something useful.



I know I know.....that's really something coming from me but you get my point.



Just remove the comments section. It is pointless.



That said, black folks got it hard. Cut 'em some slack.

leeharveyawesome wrote:They really need to remove the comments section on STLtoday just like they did on Yahoo. Yahoo would post an article and within 15 minutes there would 150,000 posts about race and politics and very rarely something useful.



I know I know.....that's really something coming from me but you get my point.



Just remove the comments section. It is pointless.

Part of the reason the comments section of the P-D is so bad is because the comments themselves are anonymous. Imagine if you had to use Facebook Connect to authenticate and post your comments -- your real name and picture would be there. I doubt we'd see as much jackassery.

innov8ion wrote:

sirhanksalot wrote:Why are we so handcuffed to speak bluntly about these episodes? Let's get to the point here: What can be done about black thugs who seek to produce violent crime around our area? Why are the majority of violent crimes in this area, if not a super majority, committed by black men? What can be done to move young black males away from violence?



This kind of BS, performed by these f-ing thugs, will destroy our already depressed city...DESTROY IT.

Well what about slavery? And the mass divestment from North St. Louis? Every action has an equal but opposite reaction. Perhaps it is past time we reinvest in North St. Louis.

Slavery? When can we move past that? Seriously, do the Jews use the Holocaust as an excuse for their criminal behavior...Oh wait, they grasp education and family as pillars for their ridiculous success. How about the Japanese camps in WWII..Oh wait Asian-Americans are highly regarded in science and engineering.



Mass divestment from North STL? Are you kidding? That's a reason for African-American crime? See, excuses are for the Jesse Jackson's of the world. Solutions, and action, are for the Bill Cosby's of the world.



Good luck Paul McKee.

sirshankalot wrote:

innov8ion wrote:

sirhanksalot wrote:Why are we so handcuffed to speak bluntly about these episodes? Let's get to the point here: What can be done about black thugs who seek to produce violent crime around our area? Why are the majority of violent crimes in this area, if not a super majority, committed by black men? What can be done to move young black males away from violence?



This kind of BS, performed by these f-ing thugs, will destroy our already depressed city...DESTROY IT.

Well what about slavery? And the mass divestment from North St. Louis? Every action has an equal but opposite reaction. Perhaps it is past time we reinvest in North St. Louis.

Slavery? When can we move past that? Seriously, do the Jews use the Holocaust as an excuse for their criminal behavior...

So the Jews are no-good criminals too? Not only do you hate African-Americans, but you hate Jews as well. Nice.



Edit - I was being sarcastic here. But note that the Jews were slaves in Egypt. It affected their psyche as well for a generation or two. It's only been a couple generations since African Americans gained equal rights here, eh.

innov8ion wrote:

sirshankalot wrote:

innov8ion wrote: Well what about slavery? And the mass divestment from North St. Louis? Every action has an equal but opposite reaction. Perhaps it is past time we reinvest in North St. Louis.

Slavery? When can we move past that? Seriously, do the Jews use the Holocaust as an excuse for their criminal behavior...

So the Jews are no-good criminals too? Not only do you hate African-Americans, but you hate Jews as well. Nice.

You missed my point. And thanks for putting "hate" into it, a word I never used. My point is Jews don't use their past horrific episodes as an excuse, nor an obstacle, for their success. (They don't commit violent, thug-like crime. Get it?) But since you couldn't undertsand that point and you quickly wanted to emotionally insert "hate" into this, I doubt we can have a discussion...

leeharveyawesome wrote:They really need to remove the comments section on STLtoday just like they did on Yahoo. Yahoo would post an article and within 15 minutes there would 150,000 posts about race and politics and very rarely something useful.



I know I know.....that's really something coming from me but you get my point.



Just remove the comments section. It is pointless.



That said, black folks got it hard. Cut 'em some slack.

I work at the Post-Dispatch, and I'm no fan of reader comments. And yet I'm not sure that all of the discussion on this thread is much more civilized or on-topic. The overt racism isn't as in your face here, but I shudder every time I hear talk about "thugs." It seems like, often at least, the person who uses the word seems like the type who would have preferred to use another term.

sirhanksalot wrote:You missed my point. And thanks for putting "hate" into it, a word I never used. My point is Jews don't use their past horrific episodes as an excuse, nor an obstacle, for their success. (They don't commit violent, thug-like crime. Get it?) But since you couldn't undertsand that point and you quickly wanted to emotionally insert "hate" into this, I doubt we can have a discussion...

Which ghetto did you grow up in? Slavery and racial discrimination clearly disempowered many. Inertia from the is tough to break, buster. It takes a village.

Hathaway wrote:

leeharveyawesome wrote:They really need to remove the comments section on STLtoday just like they did on Yahoo. Yahoo would post an article and within 15 minutes there would 150,000 posts about race and politics and very rarely something useful.



I know I know.....that's really something coming from me but you get my point.



Just remove the comments section. It is pointless.



That said, black folks got it hard. Cut 'em some slack.

I work at the Post-Dispatch, and I'm no fan of reader comments. And yet I'm not sure that all of the discussion on this thread is much more civilized or on-topic. The overt racism isn't as in your face here, but I shudder every time I hear talk about "thugs." It seems like, often at least, the person who uses the word seems like the type who would have preferred to use another term.

What word would you prefer instead of "thug"? Again, why can't we call it as we see it. A dude who shoots an innocent man in the face for $40 at his place of work is a thug...PERIOD. White or black.

Hathaway wrote:

leeharveyawesome wrote:They really need to remove the comments section on STLtoday just like they did on Yahoo. Yahoo would post an article and within 15 minutes there would 150,000 posts about race and politics and very rarely something useful.



I know I know.....that's really something coming from me but you get my point.



Just remove the comments section. It is pointless.



That said, black folks got it hard. Cut 'em some slack.

I work at the Post-Dispatch, and I'm no fan of reader comments. And yet I'm not sure that all of the discussion on this thread is much more civilized or on-topic. The overt racism isn't as in your face here, but I shudder every time I hear talk about "thugs." It seems like, often at least, the person who uses the word seems like the type who would have preferred to use another term.

Once again, one is labeled a racist if they have no patience for criminals murdering people left and right in our city.



There are deeply rooted reasons, not excuses, for the crime we see on the north side (and bleeding into downtown). Some have been mentioned in recent posts here.



I think the struggle shankalot is referring to is the seeming lack of solutions and lack of urgency to find any. Simply adding police obviously isn't the answer. Better schools? Better family structure? You can't just flip a switch and make people raise their kids right. These aren't easy issues, and they are made more difficult when people are labeled racists for trying to discuss them head on.

Every Norwegian person I've ever met was kind of a jerkface. Basically, I don't like Norwegians very much, alright? And that's ok because I will remain fairly respectful towards them.



And don't forget Whitey....there are alot of black folks out there who are NOT your biggest fans.

Thug: a brutal ruffian or assassin : gangster, tough

Thug: a brutal ruffian or assassin : gangster, tough

Sounds like thug is the right description for the murderers that committed this despicable act.