Did anyone involved in this carjacking happen to also be patrons of a certain infamous nightclub?
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I'd like to hear the "bum"'s side of the story. 
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innov8ion wrote:^ So what? With the frequency that you post P-D comments like these, one would think you depend on them to sustain your life force.
What are you talking about? How frequently do I post PD comments? Or are you talking out of your @ss again? It appears so, as this is not something I even come close to "frequently" do. This is a crime thread, I posted a crime story. Get over yourself.
^ Says the man with the signature, "Smartest thing I've ever read on STLToday forums..." 
I wasn't referring to the story, but the highlighted comments. In the ongoing and petty city/county "schism", their comments were meant to provoke. And yours to feed the fire of a response. If one doesn't add wood to a fire, does it not eventually go out?
Remind me of those on this forum that seek greater understanding and cooperation between the city and county so our region may strengthen.
I wasn't referring to the story, but the highlighted comments. In the ongoing and petty city/county "schism", their comments were meant to provoke. And yours to feed the fire of a response. If one doesn't add wood to a fire, does it not eventually go out?
Remind me of those on this forum that seek greater understanding and cooperation between the city and county so our region may strengthen.
Two words for everyone: Gaslight Square
20th and Olive before 11 p.m. is a very, very bad thing. (20th and Olive anytime is a very, very bad thing.) 18th and Market anytime is a very, very bad thing. We're talking about areas that are likely to be relatively dense with tourists, non-City residents patronizing the entertainment zones, and of course downtown and Loft District residents. One of these times a bystander is going to get caught up in this and the incremental expansion of Downtown, Downtown West and Midtown will be slowed if not reversed.
20th and Olive before 11 p.m. is a very, very bad thing. (20th and Olive anytime is a very, very bad thing.) 18th and Market anytime is a very, very bad thing. We're talking about areas that are likely to be relatively dense with tourists, non-City residents patronizing the entertainment zones, and of course downtown and Loft District residents. One of these times a bystander is going to get caught up in this and the incremental expansion of Downtown, Downtown West and Midtown will be slowed if not reversed.
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innov8ion wrote:^ Says the man with the signature, "Smartest thing I've ever read on STLToday forums..."
I wasn't referring to the story, but the highlighted comments. In the ongoing and petty city/county "schism", their comments were meant to provoke. And yours to feed the fire of a response. If one doesn't add wood to a fire, does it not eventually go out?
Remind me of those on this forum that seek greater understanding and cooperation between the city and county so our region may strengthen.
2,141 posts + signature that mentions a comment on STLToday = frequent posts regarding STLToday comments
Ah, I get your math now.
That does remind me though that I've been meaning to change that signature.
Ok, so the homeless man was aggressively panhandling. How would you have handled the situation? Would you have simply walked away and spoken to the policeman or would you have sworn at the panhandler (escalating the situation?) The outcome in this case is largely dependent on how we handle the situation.olvidarte wrote:the incident probably could have been avoided had the victim sucked it up and ignored the guy.
...or the other guy hadn't been panhandling in the first place...blame the victim much?
Just another aspect of city living right? That's how inappropriate behavior is explained away on this forum if I recall.
I used to read the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books all the time as a kid. Never once did I get sucker-punched by a homeless dude during the course of any of those stories. Go figure.
This assumes the guy was "aggressive" in the first place. If I had to guess -- based on the past run-ins and general demeanor of the story-teller, as well as my own experiences downtown -- I'd give a little less than even odds to that being the case.
bprop wrote:This assumes the guy was "aggressive" in the first place. If I had to guess -- based on the past run-ins and general demeanor of the story-teller, as well as my own experiences downtown -- I'd give a little less than even odds to that being the case.
I don't know gopher, I don't know you, and I don't live downtown. But I've experienced some very aggressive panhandling downtown.
^ Everyone's experiences are valid. I've lived downtown every day for the past three years or so. In that time, I've only experienced what I could possibly consider to be an "aggressive" panhandler once. A large man crossed the street to intercept me, offering out his hand, making out like we were long-lost buddies or something. Although initially a bit concerned, I wished him well and went along my way.
Thankfully, I lived to tell the story.
Thankfully, I lived to tell the story.
^^ Wow, in 15 years, I'm not sure I have to be honest. I'd likely feel different if I was a single women and experienced some of the panhandling. But not as a dude and not to a group of three -- including a marine and army guy! -- and I also don't recall anybody "getting in my face" when pandhandling.
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The Mayor would do well to remember Gaslight Square, the last few incidents are too close to Union Station to be ignored.
A few months ago I had a guy come up and politely ask for money. I politely declined. He then immediately started screaming, "well I guess you just hate all n***ers then don't you." I was shocked. He started yelling at me on Washington about how I was a racist and how I was going to have to sort that out with god on judgment day. It was a truly outstanding experience. I was so offended and pissed off I had trouble controlling my impulse to lash out at the guy. Now, because of him, whenever anyone asks for money, I have trouble seeing the individual and their circumstances. All I see is a person who probably has nothing but hatred and contempt for me putting on a polite mask. Honestly, some of these guys would just as soon stick a gun in your gut and take your money given the chance. The truth sucks.
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gopher wrote:Last night on Washington in front of my place. I took a marine and army guy out for drinks and a bum demanded money, (he got in my face) as we were leaving.
I told him to "get the f*## away from me" and he hit me twice on the chin. I didn't hit him back, had him arrested, and I just got out of the warrant office. Chickensh*t cold-cocked me.
Bum listed his residence as 1411 Locust. Go figure.
That being said, I was on a bit of adrenaline last night the cop that told me to walk away later apologized to me, I think his adrenaline was pumping as well. I have lots of witnesses and they made a statement to the police as well.
I didn't hit him (even though I really, really wanted to) because I knew that I would be the one with the assault charge. So I took it on the chin.
The bum of course was a "model" citizen, who as I learned today, has a "colorful" history with the court system. I will not back down and I sure as hell won't be a victim on my home turf.
Job well done. I do wish you would have decked him though.
bprop wrote:Wonder how much alcohol was involved with the bar patrons. In my fifteen years downtown, nobody has ever come up and immediately "demanded" money. Someone is a total ****-disturber and in this case it may or may not be the "bum".
Makes no difference. If a bum bothers you, it is perfectly acceptable to tell them to ****-off.
^ Still upset you didn't follow through with the threat you shared with our HOA to deck the homeless man you stole pizza from?
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innov8ion wrote:^ Still upset you didn't follow through with threat you shared with our HOA to deck the homeless man you stole pizza from?
You can't deck someone who is already on the ground.
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TGE-ATW wrote:A few months ago I had a guy come up and politely ask for money. I politely declined. He then immediately started screaming, "well I guess you just hate all n***ers then don't you." I was shocked. He started yelling at me on Washington about how I was a racist and how I was going to have to sort that out with god on judgment day. It was a truly outstanding experience. I was so offended and pissed off I had trouble controlling my impulse to lash out at the guy. Now, because of him, whenever anyone asks for money, I have trouble seeing the individual and their circumstances. All I see is a person who probably has nothing but hatred and contempt for me putting on a polite mask. Honestly, some of these guys would just as soon stick a gun in your gut and take your money given the chance. The truth sucks.
Sorry TGE, we've already established that the possibility of an aggressive panhandler is 0.
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TGE-ATW wrote:A few months ago I had a guy come up and politely ask for money. I politely declined. He then immediately started screaming, "well I guess you just hate all n***ers then don't you." I was shocked. He started yelling at me on Washington about how I was a racist and how I was going to have to sort that out with god on judgment day. It was a truly outstanding experience. I was so offended and pissed off I had trouble controlling my impulse to lash out at the guy. Now, because of him, whenever anyone asks for money, I have trouble seeing the individual and their circumstances. All I see is a person who probably has nothing but hatred and contempt for me putting on a polite mask. Honestly, some of these guys would just as soon stick a gun in your gut and take your money given the chance. The truth sucks.
I wonder if it was the same guy who called me a honkey once.
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bprop wrote:^ Nobody said such a thing. But you knew that
I tend to be sarcastic
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First allow me to say I do not mean to offend any of our hard working, well meaning military service people. However.....
annoying homeless guy + a fellow(victim) seemingly and proudly showing off his territory to his buddies + military friends + the possibility of alcohol being involved = a heck of a lot of testosterone!
Seems like a cocktail few of us could survive. Probably should be chalked up to "one of those things." Not excusing the homeless persons behavior at all but certain things make me believe he might have been provoked. Why would you even feel the need to say you were hanging out with marine and army friends? To let us know how tough you all are and that you could have taken the dude down if you wanted to? No crap...3 against one...military or not. It seems obvious the guy was either mentally ill or was provoked to take the risk of hitting one of 3 guys who could have ganged up on him in a flash. The homeless in downtown are in and out of jail all the time, I doubt that would have phased him. He probably slept well and got a baloney sandwich that night.
I am, however, very sorry you had this experience Gopher...no one should ever hit anyone except in self defense in my opinion. I hope you weren't hurt and I hope this one incident doesn't turn you away from downtown.
annoying homeless guy + a fellow(victim) seemingly and proudly showing off his territory to his buddies + military friends + the possibility of alcohol being involved = a heck of a lot of testosterone!
Seems like a cocktail few of us could survive. Probably should be chalked up to "one of those things." Not excusing the homeless persons behavior at all but certain things make me believe he might have been provoked. Why would you even feel the need to say you were hanging out with marine and army friends? To let us know how tough you all are and that you could have taken the dude down if you wanted to? No crap...3 against one...military or not. It seems obvious the guy was either mentally ill or was provoked to take the risk of hitting one of 3 guys who could have ganged up on him in a flash. The homeless in downtown are in and out of jail all the time, I doubt that would have phased him. He probably slept well and got a baloney sandwich that night.
I am, however, very sorry you had this experience Gopher...no one should ever hit anyone except in self defense in my opinion. I hope you weren't hurt and I hope this one incident doesn't turn you away from downtown.
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streetsabby wrote:First allow me to say I do not mean to offend any of our hard working, well meaning military service people. However.....
annoying homeless guy + a fellow(victim) seemingly and proudly showing off his territory to his buddies + military friends + the possibility of alcohol being involved = a heck of a lot of testosterone!
Seems like a cocktail few of us could survive. Probably should be chalked up to "one of those things." Not excusing the homeless persons behavior at all but certain things make me believe he might have been provoked. Why would you even feel the need to say you were hanging out with marine and army friends? To let us know how tough you all are and that you could have taken the dude down if you wanted to? No crap...3 against one...military or not. It seems obvious the guy was either mentally ill or was provoked to take the risk of hitting one of 3 guys who could have ganged up on him in a flash. The homeless in downtown are in and out of jail all the time, I doubt that would have phased him. He probably slept well and got a baloney sandwich that night.
I am, however, very sorry you had this experience Gopher...no one should ever hit anyone except in self defense in my opinion. I hope you weren't hurt and I hope this one incident doesn't turn you away from downtown.
Now here's my problem.
Had this been the case, at all, Gopher and/or [one of] his friends would have beaten the guy senseless. Instead, they go to the police.
Why are we still talking about this? Why is it so hard for you to believe there "may be" an aggressive panhandler downtown?
The only people more aggressive are the ones who stand at Hanley/64, Brentwood/64, and every other intersection I go to who hold out cards with a big bucket of pixy-stix. If you tell them no, a few of them may just knock on your window and continue yelling.
If things just don't easily pass the smell test, it's reasonable to question IMO. Not to say it's not true, but it raises valid questions. Nobody is denying, that, in your words:
But that a single dude could have two unprovoked homeless run-ins in a short time -- the second one ostensibly occurring immediately and without provocation while accompanied by two military guys -- raises eyebrows. Throw in overt disdain for NLEC and the fact that poster mentioned NLEC in both "attacks", plus the potential of alcohol and the one-sidedness of the story, and it's a valid point for discussion. Nobody's saying it can't happen or that it's not true. But it doesn't mean that everyone has to automatically "buy it" either.
there "may be" an aggressive panhandler downtown
But that a single dude could have two unprovoked homeless run-ins in a short time -- the second one ostensibly occurring immediately and without provocation while accompanied by two military guys -- raises eyebrows. Throw in overt disdain for NLEC and the fact that poster mentioned NLEC in both "attacks", plus the potential of alcohol and the one-sidedness of the story, and it's a valid point for discussion. Nobody's saying it can't happen or that it's not true. But it doesn't mean that everyone has to automatically "buy it" either.