Crime Thread

jcity · PostMay 08, 2009#3012009-05-08T21:25+00:00

Yet, a story like this makes me question the safety of downtown. I had no qualms before...a few stories here and there...but this one for some reason really gets to me...I don't know why...

why? clearly the groups either knew each other or had some type of scuffle in the club before they got blasted. sad story. these guys would not target your typical urbanstl reader. i doubt many on here go to Club Society either. I have NEVER heard of anyone that lives downtown or the city getting shot that wasn't involved in some type of gang/drug related and only when someone does die that was totally innocent, it's unfortunately usually a bystander. Yes, percentage-wise it's mostly black males, but what about the St. Valentines Day Massacre, all white dudes. We certainly don't hear of bottlegging murders anymore.. hmmm, maybe there is a correlation.. legalize drugs? no more gang activity. there would be ZERO reasons for gangs.

phoaddict · PostMay 08, 2009#3022009-05-08T21:26+00:00

It is beyond reality where I live by affton the amount of cops patrolling pointless and worthless streets where virtually NO crime exists. I also have a lot of high school friends from webster area, and it is also absurd the amount of police they have at night. ...but then again, maybe that's why it's safe?

If I were king, all of those cops would be in the city doing real work.

zink · PostMay 08, 2009#3032009-05-08T22:28+00:00

I once again advocate the use of a city wide video monitoring system... hopefully that will deter enough crime to find a way to actually solve it...

meteo · PostMay 08, 2009#3042009-05-08T22:44+00:00

zink wrote:I once again advocate the use of a city wide video monitoring system... hopefully that will deter enough crime to find a way to actually solve it...

While I'm not saying I'm fully against the idea on a city wide basis, the pros and cons would need to be weighed against the intrusion on civil liberties.

juiceinkirkwood · PostMay 09, 2009#3052009-05-09T00:02+00:00

phoaddict wrote:It is beyond reality where I live by affton the amount of cops patrolling pointless and worthless streets where virtually NO crime exists. I also have a lot of high school friends from webster area, and it is also absurd the amount of police they have at night. ...but then again, maybe that's why it's safe?

If I were king, all of those cops would be in the city doing real work.

As I said in another thread, my car has been broken in to 3 times and my house once in the past 12 months. Police have been unable to solve these crimes (which I expect, due to a lack of evidence), but when your Illinois license plate is expired and parked on the street, they are all over it!

Honestly, I don't blame the police for my wrongdoing...it's just frustrating.

PostMay 09, 2009#3062009-05-09T00:03+00:00

I should add that I heard that we've had 38 murders this year, 48 last year in the same period...that's some progress any way.

gopher · PostMay 09, 2009#3072009-05-09T18:33+00:00

Bring back the "chain gang" concept.

If these thugs started seeing their "homies" who committed crimes working in god-awful pink outfits on the side of the road of their old communities maybe they would get the idea that jail is not a place for free cable, workouts, 3 squares, and free education, but a place to work off their debt to society.

And I'm not talking about just picking up trash, but rather hard labor like digging ditches and filling in pot-holes.

gone corporate · PostMay 09, 2009#3082009-05-09T18:38+00:00

gopher wrote:Bring back the "chain gang" concept.

If these thugs started seeing their "homies" who committed crimes working in god-awful pink outfits on the side of the road of their old communities maybe they would get the idea that jail is not a place for free cable, workouts, 3 squares, and free education, but a place to work off their debt to society.

And I'm not talking about just picking up trash, but rather hard labor like digging ditches and filling in pot-holes.

I'd vote for that.

Another "classic" idea: public stockades.

threeonefour · PostMay 10, 2009#3092009-05-10T05:26+00:00

JuiceInDogtown wrote:As I said in another thread, my car has been broken in to 3 times and my house once in the past 12 months. Police have been unable to solve these crimes (which I expect, due to a lack of evidence), but when your Illinois license plate is expired and parked on the street, they are all over it!

Have you talked to your neighborhood stabilization officer about the multiple car break-ins?

If not I would recommend doing so. It may not help with regards to past occurences, but it might make a difference in terms of how police patrol your particular area. At any rate it's good for the NSO to know what's going on and discuss any other concerns you may have with him or her.

juiceinkirkwood · PostMay 11, 2009#3102009-05-11T03:35+00:00

ThreeOneFour wrote:
JuiceInDogtown wrote:As I said in another thread, my car has been broken in to 3 times and my house once in the past 12 months. Police have been unable to solve these crimes (which I expect, due to a lack of evidence), but when your Illinois license plate is expired and parked on the street, they are all over it!

Have you talked to your neighborhood stabilization officer about the multiple car break-ins?

If not I would recommend doing so. It may not help with regards to past occurences, but it might make a difference in terms of how police patrol your particular area. At any rate it's good for the NSO to know what's going on and discuss any other concerns you may have with him or her.

I'm not sure what an NSO is...but I have emailed our alderman Bill Waterhouse...he didn't bother responding.

steve · PostMay 11, 2009#3112009-05-11T23:12+00:00

JuiceInDogtown wrote:
ThreeOneFour wrote:
JuiceInDogtown wrote:As I said in another thread, my car has been broken in to 3 times and my house once in the past 12 months. Police have been unable to solve these crimes (which I expect, due to a lack of evidence), but when your Illinois license plate is expired and parked on the street, they are all over it!

Have you talked to your neighborhood stabilization officer about the multiple car break-ins?

If not I would recommend doing so. It may not help with regards to past occurences, but it might make a difference in terms of how police patrol your particular area. At any rate it's good for the NSO to know what's going on and discuss any other concerns you may have with him or her.

I'm not sure what an NSO is...but I have emailed our alderman Bill Waterhouse...he didn't bother responding.

publiceye · PostMay 11, 2009#3122009-05-11T23:30+00:00

I'm not sure what an NSO is

That is very surprising. An NSO is your toolkit for city services.

http://stlouis.missouri.org/citygov/nst/

http://stlouis.missouri.org/citygov/nst/nsorole.htm

migueltejada · PostMay 12, 2009#3132009-05-12T00:34+00:00

JuiceInDogtown wrote:I should add that I heard that we've had 38 murders this year, 48 last year in the same period...that's some progress any way.

The economy is hard on the black market gun buyers too, apparently.

Alex Ihnen · PostMay 12, 2009#3142009-05-12T03:01+00:00

publiceye wrote:
I'm not sure what an NSO is

That is very surprising. An NSO is your toolkit for city services.

http://stlouis.missouri.org/citygov/nst/

http://stlouis.missouri.org/citygov/nst/nsorole.htm

The only people who think that everyone knows what and who an NSO is is the NSO and you publiceye!

MattnSTL · PostMay 12, 2009#3152009-05-12T03:10+00:00

The NSO may be your toolkit, but the toolkit is often locked and has the wrong tools.

I'm talking about particular NSO's, not the idea.

the central scrutinizer · PostMay 12, 2009#3162009-05-12T03:30+00:00

southsidepride wrote:Re: The murder on Market St. last night--I think most reasonable people will see this for what it was. A targeted killing that began with some personal beef between the killer(s) and the victim that occured at a nightclub whose proprietor has already had to vacate one space due to a shooting (Plush in Union Station).

The bar is now closed. Liquor license and occupancy permit have been withdrawn.

tge-atw · PostMay 12, 2009#3172009-05-12T15:29+00:00

Not that I care one way or the other, but how is it that the City shuts down a club that was operating legally just the other day because of the off-premises behavior of some of its patrons? Is it really the club's fault that its patrons are gang-bangers? Is it the club's responsibility to govern the behavior of its patron's when they are WAY off premises? Just seems strange. If I have a party and some of my friends leave my house, drive to another neighborhood and then shoot each other, can the city pull my occupancy permit?

dweebe · PostMay 12, 2009#3182009-05-12T15:37+00:00

TGE-ATW wrote:Not that I care one way or the other, but how is it that the City shuts down a club that was operating legally just the other day because of the off-premises behavior of some of its patrons? Is it really the club's fault that its patrons are gang-bangers? Is it the club's responsibility to govern the behavior of its patron's when they are WAY off premises? Just seems strange. If I have a party and some of my friends leave my house, drive to another neighborhood and then shoot each other, can the city pull my occupancy permit?

A couple of points:

-A liquor license is a privlege and not a right.

-This is like the 3rd or 4th time where someone has left a club owned by this guy and ended up dead.

-2 blocks is not "WAY off premises"

the central scrutinizer · PostMay 12, 2009#3192009-05-12T15:38+00:00

TGE-ATW wrote:Not that I care one way or the other, but how is it that the City shuts down a club that was operating legally just the other day because of the off-premises behavior of some of its patrons? Is it really the club's fault that its patrons are gang-bangers? Is it the club's responsibility to govern the behavior of its patron's when they are WAY off premises? Just seems strange. If I have a party and some of my friends leave my house, drive to another neighborhood and then shoot each other, can the city pull my occupancy permit?

The police had visited that club at least 14 times. This was the final straw.

moorlander · PostMay 12, 2009#3202009-05-12T15:41+00:00

^ On the news they said something about a 20ish page document single spaced outlining all of the altercations at the club since 2007.

innov8ion · PostMay 12, 2009#3212009-05-12T15:42+00:00

you're only as good as the company you keep

tge-atw · PostMay 12, 2009#3222009-05-12T15:45+00:00

I see. Well, "way off premises" is relative, so I won't argue that. I think that this power is a good one for the city to have (and exercise judiciously). I am interested though in what I guess would be termed the "enabling legislation." Does anyone know from whence the power to shut down a club because its patrons are rowdy (homicidal) stems? Seems like it might be related to eminent domain in origin.

lefty314 · PostMay 12, 2009#3232009-05-12T16:28+00:00

TGE-ATW wrote:Not that I care one way or the other, but how is it that the City shuts down a club that was operating legally just the other day because of the off-premises behavior of some of its patrons? Is it really the club's fault that its patrons are gang-bangers? Is it the club's responsibility to govern the behavior of its patron's when they are WAY off premises? Just seems strange. If I have a party and some of my friends leave my house, drive to another neighborhood and then shoot each other, can the city pull my occupancy permit?

Well, I have been to that club many times and while there are unable to control the behavior of the patrons of the club outside the club...they can do things to ensure that the crowd who may partake in that type of behavior does not patronize their facilities. Things like dress codes are strong deterrents and can get you the type of crowd that you're looking for. Gang members by and large will not dress up to go out to a club...they won't be wearing buttoned down shirts and sweaters, slacks, and dress shoes just to go to a club. Hell, I won't for the most part...it might cost you some other patrons that don't feel like they wanna go through all the trouble just to go out and have a drink but it will keep things like this from happening. I personally think that it would look bad to have a club still open after a triple shooting, and now that it's seen as a gathering place for these types of people...its gonna look very bad in the public eye...especially when the city of St. Louis is trying to turn its image around.

Any way you slice it you can not have drive-by shootings in Downtown St. Louis...those guys probably would have been killed anyway. Reading where they are from two of them are from Walnut Park and one is from South St. Louis. Maybe they all wouldn't have been killed in such an event but it was bound to happen. When someone pulls off a brazen attack like this in downtown St. Louis, you know they wanted those guys...it was only a matter of time whether it was in Walnut Park or somewhere else, it was gonna happen.

steve · PostMay 12, 2009#3242009-05-12T18:47+00:00

TGE-ATW wrote:I think that this power is a good one for the city to have (and exercise judiciously). I am interested though in what I guess would be termed the "enabling legislation." Does anyone know from whence the power to shut down a club because its patrons are rowdy (homicidal) stems? Seems like it might be related to eminent domain in origin.

The authority stems from the state's inherent police power--that is the lawful power of the state to regulate human behavior and activities for public safety, health, and the "general welfare." The authority to license and regulate businesses falls under the police power of the state. The City, as a chartered city and a political subdivision of the state, has been delegated some of that authority by the state.

But you are correct in that the power of eminent domain does indeed fall under the general umbrella of police power and so are related in origin.

jcity · PostMay 13, 2009#3252009-05-13T03:34+00:00

has anyone on here been to Spruill's? i want to go.

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