urbanSTL

Interesting article I found on Time.com that talked about how Portugal legalized personal use of drugs and increased treatment for addiction and had a massive decrease in the number of drug users.



The question is - do we have drug laws cause we don't like drugs, or the people who use them?

JCity wrote:

do you guys really not blame the sub-humans that cause these crimes? I'm all for businesses being smart, but don't blame them, blame the little expendable vagrants.

Theft is a combination of motive and opportunity. Since the businesses can't address the motive, they can eliminate the opportunity. Failing to eliminate opportunity invites theft. Sad to say, but it's true.

JCity wrote:

I am starting to partially blame these businesses for making it so easy, or simply don't care to invest in their own security awareness/protection.

yeah, that girl was dressed all slutty, she was just asking to be raped... do you guys really not blame the sub-humans that cause these crimes? I'm all for businesses being smart, but don't blame them, blame the little expendable vagrants.

We can't blame them either, because they have been the victims of racism which is endemic to our system.



Or something.

I will never go downtown again.

TGE-ATW wrote:Anybody want to rant and rave about the triple shooting on Market near Union Station? Three men shot dead in an SUV in plain view on a main street after leaving a club. There must have been some serious firepower in the shooter's car to drop three guys so quickly and efficiently in an SUV. The news quoted a homeless man nearby this morning who said he woke up and it sounded like the fourth of July. I know I am just stereotyping, but who wants to bet that the victims were Revolutionary Guard operatives and the shooters were Mossad? I know, I know, correlation does not equal causation, but man, when something like this happens, it always seems to be the same guys.

Let's be careful.



Motorcycle gang investigated in 3 deaths

4 days ago



ST. LOUIS (AP) — Law enforcement officers are investigating a motorcycle gang called the Invaders in connection with the 2007 deaths of two St. Louis-area men and the disappearance of the third.



The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported Sunday that court documents showed that for more than a year investigators have suspected members of the gang of killing 39-year-old Randy Greenman, and 36-year-old George Whitter.



The two vanished in September 2007 and their mutilated bodies were found weeks later dumped in two locations in Missouri and Illinois.



A motive for the killings is unknown and the two men were not believed to be gang members.



Source

Link



These are sad, sad events committed obviously by sadistic, sad people. A fight or disagreement in a club is not worth someone's life. Because there is a pattern, I hope the city closes Club Society and Missouri restricts the owners from getting a liquor license anywhere in Missouri.

The news of these three killings last night is really really really scary and I fear that it's not good news for downtown. (obviously)



In chicago, around this time of year last year (maybe a little later) there was one weekend where there were 30+ killings. It was attributed to the time of year and the time of gang initiations when school is let out and the weather is warmer so people tend to hang out more outside. However, nothing like this I heard of happening in the loop or north of the loop...which makes this story really concerning.



I took some friends from the suburbs to enjoy some authentic mexican on Cherokee street last night. While the food was good, I couldn't get over the fact that I saw NO cop cars driving down the street. This was a span for 1.5 hours! I hate to keep comparing, but even in the county and in chicago, I would have at least seen 3 cops in that time frame.



What is the deal??? How the heck can the city expect anything to happen if crime is not #1 priority. No one in their right mind would move to the city if crimes like this continue to happen in areas where many people go...aka downtown.



These killings downtown for many people, arguably mentally erased the effort of the past 6 years of revitalization. Such a f##ing shame.

I took some friends from the suburbs to enjoy some authentic mexican on Cherokee street last night. While the food was good, I couldn't get over the fact that I saw NO cop cars driving down the street. This was a span for 1.5 hours! I hate to keep comparing, but even in the county and in chicago, I would have at least seen 3 cops in that time frame.

I see cops drive through our neighborhood all the time, we are not too far from there.

krykel wrote:

I took some friends from the suburbs to enjoy some authentic mexican on Cherokee street last night. While the food was good, I couldn't get over the fact that I saw NO cop cars driving down the street. This was a span for 1.5 hours! I hate to keep comparing, but even in the county and in chicago, I would have at least seen 3 cops in that time frame.

I see cops drive through our neighborhood all the time, we are not too far from there.

Must have just been the night, but I was paying attention, as I look out for those kinds of things...



Great neighborhood though, and I LOVE what the Mexican community has done for it.

southsidepride wrote:Re: The murder on Market St. last night--I think most reasonable people will see this for what it was. A targeted killing that began with some personal beef between the killer(s) and the victim that occured at a nightclub whose proprietor has already had to vacate one space due to a shooting (Plush in Union Station).



It doesn't speak to the overall safety of the area for the vast majority of those who visit or live downtown and don't associate with folks who elevate personal disputes to the level of gunplay.



Again, it was really no more random than the murder in Columbia, IL.



Basically if someone was skittish on downtown to begin with, this won't help matters. But I don't think those who put things in perspective will be frightened off.

I understand what you're saying, but I think most reasonable people will think that this could totally happen again, and what if I'm in the crossfire?



Too bad this happened right before the state of the city speech, and Slay couldn't address the issue of crime.



I consider my self very diverse in my appeal of city activities. I'm in my young/mid 20's. I've travelled a lot. I prefer urban over anything else. I love culture and frequent as many different things as I can. Yet, a story like this makes me question the safety of downtown. I had no qualms before...a few stories here and there...but this one for some reason really gets to me...I don't know why...

phoaddict wrote:

southsidepride wrote:Re: The murder on Market St. last night--I think most reasonable people will see this for what it was. A targeted killing that began with some personal beef between the killer(s) and the victim that occured at a nightclub whose proprietor has already had to vacate one space due to a shooting (Plush in Union Station).



It doesn't speak to the overall safety of the area for the vast majority of those who visit or live downtown and don't associate with folks who elevate personal disputes to the level of gunplay.



Again, it was really no more random than the murder in Columbia, IL.



Basically if someone was skittish on downtown to begin with, this won't help matters. But I don't think those who put things in perspective will be frightened off.

I understand what you're saying, but I think most reasonable people will think that this could totally happen again, and what if I'm in the crossfire?



Too bad this happened right before the state of the city speech, and Slay couldn't address the issue of crime.



I consider my self very diverse in my appeal of city activities. I'm in my young/mid 20's. I've travelled a lot. I prefer urban over anything else. I love culture and frequent as many different things as I can. Yet, a story like this makes me question the safety of downtown. I had no qualms before...a few stories here and there...but this one for some reason really gets to me...I don't know why...

You can make that argument for most major cities in the U.S. If you check out other newspapers, they often have similar headlines. Unless you're starting fights at 3 in the morning outside a club I wouldn't worry about it.

^ i'm guessing that these people do care what happens to them - the fact is that market street is abandoned at 3pm (and other times as well) so there's no more chance of getting caught there than elsewhere

I know police cannot be everywhere at all times, but...



why is it that when I cross the county line to go back home for the night, I'll see no less than 3 cops. Why is it that the county has such an overwhelming police force, to the point where it's almost oppressive, given that most of their jobs consist of busting high school parties and giving traffic tickets?



This is extremely mind-boggling to me. I rarely ever see cops late night in the city. The only cops I see are hanging out at Nick's pub late night pretending to be badasses and kicking out people they don't approve of. Honestly. This has been my experience...for someone who the city is trying to "attract".



Hopefully a merge with the county would be the beginning of an increase in city police capabilities.