urbanSTL

sirshankalot wrote:savages...pure, unadulterated savagery. I wish that victim had a gun on him....

The victim was blindsided, that's the whole point of the knock-out game. I don't see how a gun would have done anything other than add to the potential danger.

I love the liberal post dispatch story about the guys in jail serving a 241 year sentence. Miraculously the victims didn't die, if they had, those two would have faced the death penalty. Now, they both get to have endless decades to think about their crime, and perhaps another dumb teenager might think twice about shooting their holdup victims for no reason. I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for the criminals and commend the sentence by the judge.

onecity wrote:I have never heard someone suggest that turning any neighborhood into a haven of poverty is a good thing. You want to see the endpoint of that? Go to north STL, where you can see the effects of many decades of concentrated poverty and divestment.

Exactly. There's no silver lining that applies to the decline in Dutchtown. Despite the valiant efforts of some residents and business owners to turn things around, I still believe things have only gotten worse in the last decade there and in adjacent areas. It's no coincidence when one looks at a crime map, or more specifically, the 'murder' maps, that a significant number of crimes occur within a mile or so of Jefferson Avenue and South Broadway.

North St. Louis and East St. Louis are prime examples of what happens when concentrated poverty is allowed to take root and spread. I just wish city leaders took these trends more seriously.

threeonefour wrote:

onecity wrote:I have never heard someone suggest that turning any neighborhood into a haven of poverty is a good thing. You want to see the endpoint of that? Go to north STL, where you can see the effects of many decades of concentrated poverty and divestment.

Exactly. There's no silver lining that applies to the decline in Dutchtown. Despite the valiant efforts of some residents and business owners to turn things around, I still believe things have only gotten worse in the last decade there and in adjacent areas. It's no coincidence when one looks at a crime map, or more specifically, the 'murder' maps, that a significant number of crimes occur within a mile or so of Jefferson Avenue and South Broadway.

North St. Louis and East St. Louis are prime examples of what happens when concentrated poverty is allowed to take root and spread. I just wish city leaders took these trends more seriously.

I guess may be wrong about my views of dutch town but our region has a problem with contrasting poverty look at this weekend in north county I am going to say who was right or wrong but I wonder if the any of this could lead to civil unrests. Also it seems like the north county maybe worse off then people thought.
http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Heavy-po ... 09091.html
http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Heavy-po ... 09091.html

North County is starting to suffer the same as NSTL did or has..
however theres been lots more investment into North County than NSTL as far as jobs go.
Today what happened in Ferguson is everything wrong with government policing also the public as well.
No one should ever chant kill the police because without them these people would actually be living like they are in 3rd world country.
On the other hand the police should have at least frisked the young kid before doing what they did.
We need civil peace in this country particularly in the black community where unrest lies.
Dutchtown itself is a victim city of neglect by the poor choices residents make although some have tried to stay with it & make change however a few people willing to make change for better can't outweigh the countless of others who aren't willing to make change either.
Saint.Louis needs peace all of these shootings knockout games etc.
Goes to show you kids having kids isn't a good formula on top of that most of these parents that have kids usually have no direction in their own lives there fore shouldn't be having kids in the first place. Father usually not in the kids life or vice versa or being raised in a poor or violent neighborhood.. Violence has no color at all
These people will never be able to live a stable peaceful lifestyle cause of the few poor choices they make.
Parents today put to much responsibilities on the teachers & others.
People never stop growing up there for we'll continue to evolve & learn ...

It's going to be interesting to see if anyone snitches on the cop.

I personally think blacks have deep rooted issues & it doesn't start with the police it starts with the culture of their lifestyle. As i look at the post dispatch picture a woman holds a sign saying stop killing our kids yet there was another homicide in the city. The lack of intelligence respect & dignity for one another is crippling.
It starts with basic home rules & having knowledge of strength courage peace love joy & harmony which lacks in many poor black & white communities.
Church will never save a life nor will god.
Having faith in the spirit of love & strength will only save lives
Bringing strength of change into yourself to get away from the unnecessary bloodshed that continues to plague these communities should be first priority not blaming the police or having an excuse to hate police that are trying to protect others. Yes their are some very crocket cops but not all of them are that way.
People really need to stop the race baiting pointing fingers & accept blame for their choice of lifestyle.
Maybe I'm wrong but i was brought up to respect others having a black father & a white mother made me appreciate life all that much more. I don't say that I'm black & i don't say that I'm white i say that I'm multi racial i'll never pick one over the other.
As i say life isn't given its a journey of love trust bonding peace & treasure.

I wonder how bad tensions will get Ferguson but at the same time I am so happy this did not happen in the city. The crowd also cursed ad Dooley wonder what that was about?

TheNewSaintLouis wrote:I personally think blacks have deep rooted issues & it doesn't start with the police it starts with the culture of their lifestyle. As i look at the post dispatch picture a woman holds a sign saying stop killing our kids yet there was another homicide in the city. The lack of intelligence respect & dignity for one another is crippling.
It starts with basic home rules & having knowledge of strength courage peace love joy & harmony which lacks in many poor black & white communities.
....
People really need to stop the race baiting pointing fingers & accept blame for their choice of lifestyle.
Maybe I'm wrong but i was brought up to respect others having a black father & a white mother made me appreciate life all that much more. I don't say that I'm black & i don't say that I'm white i say that I'm multi racial i'll never pick one over the other.
As i say life isn't given its a journey of love trust bonding peace & treasure.

I get where you're coming from but I'd seriously take issue with a lot of what you said. I just never see any point to this handwringing about black people and the "culture of their lifestyle"--"ghetto culture" or "culture of violence" or whatever you wanna call it. Do we ever hear about poor rural whites in Missouri meth country and their "culture of violence"? Or Wall Street bankers and their "culture of fraud/greed"? (Ok, maybe that one we do, but still...) While black communities may benefit from some serious self-examination regarding violence, gangs, education, etc.--on Hot 104.1 last night nearly all of the DJs and citizens calling in were basically saying as much--I tend to think that these problems have far deeper structural causes.

By that I mean I don't see the point in assigning blame without talking about the profound economic, educational, and residential disparities that underlie these problems. Maybe it's just me but I think this country needs a serious reckoning with its racial history--hyper-segregated cities like St. Louis in particular. Then maybe we can start talking about solutions.

It's total chaos up there...stores getting broken into. Reporter struck in head with a bottle

by TheNewSaintLouis » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:36 pm

I personally think blacks have deep rooted issues & it doesn't start with the police it starts with the culture of their lifestyle. As i look at the post dispatch picture a woman holds a sign saying stop killing our kids yet there was another homicide in the city. The lack of intelligence respect & dignity for one another is crippling.
It starts with basic home rules & having knowledge of strength courage peace love joy & harmony which lacks in many poor black & white communities.
Church will never save a life nor will god.
Having faith in the spirit of love & strength will only save lives
Bringing strength of change into yourself to get away from the unnecessary bloodshed that continues to plague these communities should be first priority not blaming the police or having an excuse to hate police that are trying to protect others. Yes their are some very crocket cops but not all of them are that way.
People really need to stop the race baiting pointing fingers & accept blame for their choice of lifestyle.
Maybe I'm wrong but i was brought up to respect others having a black father & a white mother made me appreciate life all that much more. I don't say that I'm black & i don't say that I'm white i say that I'm multi racial i'll never pick one over the other.
As i say life isn't given its a journey of love trust bonding peace & treasure.

EXCELLENT and I fully agree with everything you said. Blacks have never respected authority (LA Riots anyone??). Obama has never addressed black-on-black violence either.

survivor147 wrote: EXCELLENT and I fully agree with everything you said. Blacks have never respected authority (LA Riots anyone??). Obama has never addressed black-on-black violence either.

but when white people riot it's totally legit, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots

i have a feeling this thread is going to go south for a while (well farther south, i suppose, considering it's a crime thread)...

yeah, listening to hot 104.1 and seeing stuff on twitter it seems like it's gotten really, really bad there. several businesses looted, some on fire, shots fired... yikes. sad day for STL.

watching fox2 live footage of looting, all I can say is holy sh*t. gonna be seeing these images a lot in the next couple days I imagine.

I can't pretend to understand anything about this incident or the way in which some in the community have responded. It just saddens me because this one incident has the potential to set back racial relations in Greater St. Louis by decades.

My only question is, where is the outrage for the almost constant black-on-black crime in our area? A grandmother was gunned down on a city street in front of her grandchildren. Where was this 'response' then?

threeonefour wrote:My only question is, where is the outrage for the almost constant black-on-black crime in our area? A grandmother was gunned down on a city street in front of her grandchildren. Where was this 'response' then?

Nice red herring.

Oh man, it's really bad there. Hate to see business being destroyed like that, makes you wonder if the place'll ever be the same

I imagine we'll be reading and talking about this riot and case for a long time

^^ and ^^^

I don't really know if it is a red herring. I think it's one of quite a few valid questions we need to ask ourselves both as smaller communities and as a larger community. And again, it's just one of many.

But there are a lot, lot more civilian on civilian murders. A lot of our own killing our own (and I'm not talking about "our" as a race, though races could be viewed as their own communities, as could neighborhoods, municipalities, etc.). There could be a lot of lives saved if these killings prompted the outrage and action that this one has.

Now, that doesn't mean there aren't major legitimate racial, social, economic, and more issues that also HAVE to be discussed and frankly fixed in our region. Those are all a big part of this.

Anyways this whole situation sucks. Really, really bad. I'm so sad right now.

So is this the final nail in north county

I wonder if the governor is going to have to declare a state of emergency.

Ebsy wrote:

threeonefour wrote:My only question is, where is the outrage for the almost constant black-on-black crime in our area? A grandmother was gunned down on a city street in front of her grandchildren. Where was this 'response' then?

Nice red herring.

I don't think so. I'm not trying to distract. As you see above, I am not the only one here who thinks that this one of many questions that should be asked as we as a community seek common ground and attempt to move forward.

The reason that there is not as much outrage when there is black on black crime vs. police brutality is that there is no entity at which to direct rage. In this case, the target is the police, and in extension, the law, which has failed this community so totally. This event is going to be disected in the months to come, and it is not going to reflect well on St. Louis.

threeonefour wrote:I can't pretend to understand anything about this incident or the way in which some in the community have responded. It just saddens me because this one incident has the potential to set back racial relations in Greater St. Louis by decades.

Race relations in St. Louis are already set back DECADES in comparison to other regions. I have said this AD NAUSEAM here and on other forums. No one listens. Race relations have never been impressive in St. Louis - EVER.

With that said, the St. Louis metropolitan area - as ***** up and backwards as it can be - has people of all backgrounds who will and can see BEYOND race. Thank GOD for them. They will be the one's who will get St. Louis through this storm - not the race-baiters and race-haters.

threeonefour wrote:My only question is, where is the outrage for the almost constant black-on-black crime in our area? A grandmother was gunned down on a city street in front of her grandchildren. Where was this 'response' then?

This is the question that almost always comes up with police killings.

First, there are different dynamics at play here. Second, you obviously miss the outrage and anti-violence marches and rallies that take place in St. Louis and East St. Louis. Regardless, different dynamics are in play when a cop - regardless of race - shoots AN UNARMED person vs. black-on-black crime in parts of the black community where violence manifests due to social-economic disparities.

Last, the cop who shot Mike Brown with his hands up - at point-blank range - fired the shots that broke the camel's back. FOR years, police have shot and killed black men all over the metro area and FOR YEARS the black community was told to let justice take its course. While I don't condone violence and looting, people obviously didn't want to hear it this time.

Ultimately, metro St. Louis is reaping what it has sewn. I said before and I'll say it again.......IT IS A CESSPOOL for racial animus and intolerance. The top has blown off the lid and METRO leadership has done a piss-poor job to address the racial animus and divide. In Houston, improved race relations were a priority and now it is one of the fastest growing cities in the U.S. with THE fastest growing economy.

I don't feel sorry for the St. Louis region - at all. If St. Louis loses businesses and corporations as a result of all of this - so be it. If the region gets a "black-eye" as a result of this - so be it. St. Louis - black, white or whatever - get your sh*t together.

Despite some forward-movement, the leadership, politics and social fabric of the region are archaic and non-progressive. And personally, it's sad to say, because I have been inching closer and closer to this for a while, but I am very close to giving up hope on the region. I have never understood how some expats - both black and white - could express their desire to never move back to St. Louis.

Now I am beginning to understand.