urbanSTL

Chicago had 9 killed and 53 wounded over the weekend. Including the early hours of Monday morning brings the total to 14 killed, 80+ wounded. Scary.

7 shot in mass shooting in Broad Ripple section of Indianapolis.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/per ... oad-ripple

downtown2007 wrote:7 shot in mass shooting in Broad Ripple section of Indianapolis.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/per ... oad-ripple

And a cop killed in a separate incident.

These high profile shootings are a national trend. We live in a bubble in St. Louis and really don't see this as a national trend. The reason we are seeing shootings in busy, urban entertainment districts is because they are finally getting reactivated, bringing people from all different walks of life, good or bad. Even in places like Denver, Seattle, and Portland we see these types of shootings. It is really shows how easy it is to get a gun in America and how so many people feel that violence is the only way we can settle disputes. The media also likes to sensationalize urban crime, or violent crimes that reinforce the stereotypes about who commits crimes. There are a lot of suburban murders that never reach the light of day. A guy I went to high school with killed his ex girlfriend and 2 other people in a crime of passion, it was never in the news. Everybody just heard about it word of mouth.

I would also like to add that the autocentric design of our streets and dearth of "eyes on the streets" leads to these type of crimes too. In St. Louis, it is too easy to shoot somebody turn a few blocks at high speed and get away with murder. Try that in Midtown Manhattan. Also, there are simply not enough beat cops in St. Louis. There should be a cop (on foot) on every block of Washington Ave on a busy weekend night. We also need some type of real curfew enforcement and citations for loitering. I see stuff go down in St. Louis that definitely wouldn't fly in most cities that want to keep the tourist dollars flowing.

Immigrant murdered in robbery on Chippewa

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... a0c48.html

I don't know if immigrant killers get the same kind of "special treatment" in prison that child offenders do, but if I were a guard I think I'd throw in some contraband to make sure they do.

Petty crime, burglaries, thefts and vehicle damage is really on the uptick. I don't know if anyone uses the Nextdoor app but the reports are constant and sad to see so many people getting victimized. Please don't say "Well, you just hear about it more because of social media". I don't believe crime is down at all. That's a myth.

As the city "improves" there are more "targets" in the city neighborhoods just around the corner for the violent/criminal element to target. You can't burgalrize an empty storefront. It's almost like a dream for a criminal to know that you moved in around the corner with your Macbook and Ford Fusion and scooter.

Anyway, it's more annoying than anything just because some things never change. People exhibit tendencies. Demographics have tendencies proven consistently over long timelines. In turn, cities (which are made up by people/demographics) have tendencies as well. St. Loiuis tends to be crime-y. Seattle tends to not be litter-y, etc.

Get some more cops, just deal with it or move I guess.

leeharveyawesome wrote:Petty crime, burglaries, thefts and vehicle damage is really on the uptick. I don't know if anyone uses the Nextdoor app but the reports are constant and sad to see so many people getting victimized. Please don't say "Well, you just hear about it more because of social media". I don't believe crime is down at all. That's a myth.

If you don't believe statistics that crime is down and that perception of an increase is because you hear about it more because of social media, "I see lots of crimes on my app" isn't really a counterargument.

MarkHaversham wrote:

leeharveyawesome wrote:Petty crime, burglaries, thefts and vehicle damage is really on the uptick. I don't know if anyone uses the Nextdoor app but the reports are constant and sad to see so many people getting victimized. Please don't say "Well, you just hear about it more because of social media". I don't believe crime is down at all. That's a myth.

If you don't believe statistics that crime is down and that perception of an increase is because you hear about it more because of social media, "I see lots of crimes on my app" isn't really a counterargument.

OK.

Actually, what's happened is social media has completely invalidated or at least called into question any official crime stats put out by the city or any other official crime reporting organization.

Nextdoor, for instance, is loaded with people noting what crime happended to them, the fact that an official police report was filed AND that it never showed up on the "official" crime reports when they went back and took a look.

It seems like you're arguing we have no way to know whether crime is trending up or down over time.

^^ social media hasn't invalidated anything. in order to prove otherwise you'd have to show that a significant number of the crimes you're seeing on NextDoor or hearing about on social media are not being included in the stats AND that the stats aren't including crimes that you don't hear about on social media. otherwise social media = anecdote (or worse, considering that Facebook now experiments with mood control by manipulating what its users see).

We all have seen what stricter gun rules in Chicago has gotten them.
82 shot & 16 killed
This was suppose to be a celebration of our country & instead these people celebrate by having their own personal wars over stuff so petty.
Like the shooting that happened right in front of Lumiere.
These people clearly are useless worthless soulless & would never be able to hold a job even if given the opportunity.

MarkHaversham wrote:It seems like you're arguing we have no way to know whether crime is trending up or down over time.

I just think it's a safe bet that the crime stats are innacurate. Not just ballpark inaccurate but probably tending toward very innacurate. And we're only talking about the crimes that DID get reported to police in the first place.

Did you know if seven cars get broken into in one night in roughly the same only one report is created (one report counting as one incident, not seven) unless someone demands multiple reports?

Like I've said before, the prospect of "crime" has never stopped me from doing anything or going anywhere. I just think it's underreported, annoying and sad and a large percentage of the people I've noticed making these posts on social media are young women. I don't know what that means, I'm just pointing it out. And that's not cool at all.

One thing we can agree on: Eliminate the Commissioner of Dishwasher Installations and his/her entire department and hire some cops.

UrbanOasis* wrote:We all have seen what stricter gun rules in Chicago has gotten them.
82 shot & 16 killed
This was suppose to be a celebration of our country & instead these people celebrate by having their own personal wars over stuff so petty.
Like the shooting that happened right in front of Lumiere.
These people clearly are useless worthless soulless & would never be able to hold a job even if given the opportunity.

I think it says less about the people and more about the culture of violence and the willingness to blame anything but guns here in the US. Other developed nations don't have gun homicides like we do.

Ebsy wrote:

UrbanOasis* wrote:We all have seen what stricter gun rules in Chicago has gotten them.
82 shot & 16 killed
This was suppose to be a celebration of our country & instead these people celebrate by having their own personal wars over stuff so petty.
Like the shooting that happened right in front of Lumiere.
These people clearly are useless worthless soulless & would never be able to hold a job even if given the opportunity.

I think it says less about the people and more about the culture of violence and the willingness to blame anything but guns here in the US. Other developed nations don't have gun homicides like we do.

I'm starting to wonder if Ebsy is a real person or a robot programmed to post the absolute perfect textbook PC comment about everything. It's super funny!

Ad hominem aside, the evidence reveals that America is the only developed nation plagued by gun violence. You do seem like someone who who might think that the UN is a worldwide conspiracy, but that simply can't be helped.

Sometimes I can't believe I'm actually out there defending this side of the gun debate but I just see it differently I guess.

As you go to sleep tonight there's a million guns in Montana that won't be used to shoot another human and if you can't see any cultural differences between the south side of Chicago and Sweden then we are aways apart I suppose.

^ i think you're putting words in his mouth. the argument is not that the two cultures aren't different, but that the proliferation of guns makes it easier for the more violent culture to be violent. sure, there are plenty of violent people in Europe and Asia, but they don't have access to guns like we do. there's no end in sight to mental illness (as if every gun crime can be attributed to mental illness) and there's no end in sight to conflict and violent behavior, but limiting access to instruments that kill people efficiently reduces the amount of people killed.

leeharveyawesome wrote:Sometimes I can't believe I'm actually out there defending this side of the gun debate but I just see it differently I guess.

As you go to sleep tonight there's a million guns in Montana that won't be used to shoot another human and if you can't see any cultural differences between the south side of Chicago and Sweden then we are aways apart I suppose.

Some more broad generalizations I see. There are super safe, ALL Black, neighborhoods in South Chicago and decrepit slums in ALL WHITE European cities, particular in Eastern Europe and Russia where the Russian mob makes American street violence look like patty cake.

Either way, I don't condone any violence. I just don't like when people make broad generalizations and talk in racial code speech then accuse others of being PC, when they don't agree with their assumptions.

leeharveyawesome wrote:

MarkHaversham wrote:It seems like you're arguing we have no way to know whether crime is trending up or down over time.

I just think it's a safe bet that the crime stats are innacurate. Not just ballpark inaccurate but probably tending toward very innacurate. And we're only talking about the crimes that DID get reported to police in the first place.

Did you know if seven cars get broken into in one night in roughly the same only one report is created (one report counting as one incident, not seven) unless someone demands multiple reports?

Like I've said before, the prospect of "crime" has never stopped me from doing anything or going anywhere. I just think it's underreported, annoying and sad and a large percentage of the people I've noticed making these posts on social media are young women. I don't know what that means, I'm just pointing it out. And that's not cool at all.

One thing we can agree on: Eliminate the Commissioner of Dishwasher Installations and his/her entire department and hire some cops.

Well, I think it's very safe to say that the crime stats are not perfectly inaccurate. The questions that do not have obvious answers are, "is the inaccuracy significant", and "is the inaccuracy trending up over time"? Even if we assume we are more aware of inaccuracies due to modern social apps, that doesn't mean the inaccuracies are growing. If anything, one would intuitively expect accuracy is increasing with the increased scrutiny.

As far as the many crimes/one report thing, there's nothing necessarily strange about that. Nobody would refer to a high-speed chase as fifty moving violations. I think it's perfectly valid to argue that a one-man crime spree is a single very severe incident, rather than numerous small incidents. Whether grouping is being used in a valid way requires a bit more scrutiny.

For all the anti gun commenters on here, instead of posting your opinions only on blogs, I'd like to see people place signs in front of their houses proclaiming that they are "gun free homes". Right now a criminal/ burglar assumes that any house might have a weapon inside. Let's have the anti gun crowd proclaim this on their front laws. I'd love to see which houses get invaded first. Ps. I don't even own A gun.

jcity wrote:For all the anti gun commenters on here, instead of posting your opinions only on blogs, I'd like to see people place signs in front of their houses proclaiming that they are "gun free homes". Right now a criminal/ burglar assumes that any house might have a weapon inside. Let's have the anti gun crowd proclaim this on their front laws. I'd love to see which houses get invaded first. Ps. I don't even own A gun.

Criminals also break into places where they think they can steal a gun, so I'm not sure that the consequences of your signs are as cut-and-dry as you imply.

jcity wrote:For all the anti gun commenters on here, instead of posting your opinions only on blogs, I'd like to see people place signs in front of their houses proclaiming that they are "gun free homes". Right now a criminal/ burglar assumes that any house might have a weapon inside. Let's have the anti gun crowd proclaim this on their front laws. I'd love to see which houses get invaded first. Ps. I don't even own A gun.

Is there any study that shows that criminals are less likely to strike knowing that there might be firearms in a home, or do they just more frequently arm themselves and end up shooting someone going for their gun? Because there are studies showing a correlation between gun ownership and being killed by a gun during a home invasion.

MarkHaversham wrote: Criminals also break into places where they think they can steal a gun, so I'm not sure that the consequences of your signs are as cut-and-dry as you imply.

Many criminals actually break into cars to steal firearms.

I have a standing $100 offer for anyone on the South Side in the city who proudly and permanently displays a prominent "This is a Gun Free Home" sign in their yard (only caveat is you must be east of Kingshighway and north of Meramec.)

I assume nobody is willing to try this little social experiment for free.