urbanSTL

rawest1 wrote:Mansion House, Hampton Gardens, Washington Avenue, now the Central freaking West End. It's depressing and disconcerting to hear about the rash of gun violence in parts of the city that I thought were safe.

I hear you. The previous incidents were certainly cause for concern, but this one really got to me.

I had just spent the afternoon with my family at Francis Park on what was perhaps the most beautiful afternoon this summer when I came home, turned on KSDK, and heard the news about Megan Boken. Although I was saddened and angered,I must admit I was slightly relieved a bit when I heard someone in the mayor's office indicated that it may not have been a random attack. But then, I thought the statement was a bit odd, since police were still investigating. In retrospect, it seemed like a misguided attempt to ease people's minds, since literally thousands of people were about to enter the CWE that evening for dinner, drinks, shopping, and entertainment.

Obviously we know now that police believe this was an attempted robbery. It's still so hard to believe that something this violent could happen in broad daylight in what is perhaps the city's most well-traveled neighborhood. I've been through this intersection in my car and on foot at least hundreds of times, and I've never felt unsafe, nor have I ever felt alone.

Mayor Slay posted a lengthy response to this senseless crime on his Facebook page, and later made a statement aired in its entirety on Fox 2, KTVI. While I am glad the mayor acknowledged the senselessness and the shock of this crime, I think he's just a bit too late to express such outrage. The city hasn't had fewer than 100 homicides per year in the last half-century. I can think of several other senseless killings in seemingly safe areas, like the home invasion in Lasalle Park that led to the death of Gina Stallis in 2009. Unfortunately, this story has played out far too many times in recent years.

I also question Mayor Slay's call for stricter gun laws at this time. I don't carry a gun, I hate the prevalence of guns in our society, and I dislike the NRA greatly, but I believe people should have the right to carry a concealed weapon to protect themselves. Tougher gun regulations won't make it more difficult for lowlife thugs like this murderer to get their hands on illegal weapons. When someone like this has absolutely no respect for human life or the law, you can best bet they aren't too worried about obtaining a permit for the use of their weapons.

Finally, Mayor Slay should direct his anger and frustration away from federal and state legislators, who probably won't move toward tighter gun restrictions anyway, and toward the failed justice system in this city. I mentioned the Gina Stallis murder earlier. Her killer has two suspended impositions of sentence (SIS) for weapons possession felonies. When Mario Coleman, Stallis' killer, violated probation during the first SIS, the courts gave him another SIS. This should be an outrage, and in most places it would be impossible, but it's just another day in the courts of the City of St. Louis.

I hope this lowlife is caught asap. I bet his rap sheet is a mile long and probably includes a previous weapons-related charge. I still feel safe in the City of St. Louis and I still love it here. But we're kidding ourselves if we fail to acknowledge the revolving door that is our justice system, and its potential to undermine the progress the city has made in recent years if people feel unsafe living here or visiting here.

I apologize for the length, but I'm just so sick of the never-ending violence here.

I'd be willing to pay higher taxes to incarcerate these disgusting thugs, who are involved in gun crimes. I agree, something has got to give. It is time to enact VERY STRICT gun laws in the City. If not, families are going to head for the hills and desert our City's neighborhoods. It is time to act!

PS_ One thing people sometimes forget. As much as I love the CWE and think it is great, it is on the cusp of some very rough neighborhoods. Thugs can literally walk from their homes, to victimize the innocent sitting ducks in the CWE. It is the story of our city. Great areas, border bad areas. Hard-working, productive citizens, victimized by the hood-rat thugs, looking to make a buck to get their day going. They do wake up about the time Megan Boken was shot, so I'm sure the thug just needed lunch, after waking up from a long night....just disgusting!

I've been tired of the crime since long before this weekend's newest wave of violence. Places I feel/felt safe now have serious crimes happening and it's disconcerting.

I love living in the City, but even I get sick of the trash I live around, it's so tiring.

My question is what can the STLPD do? How can the City get much, much tougher on crime? Do criminals feel that there is no consequence for their bad actions in the City? It's almost like they feel they have a free pass to cause havok.

I have lived in my current neighborhood for over 2 years and I have never, not once, seen a patrol car driving down the streets. Maybe the police need to be more visible on a daily basis and not just in entertainment hot spots, etc. They need to be visible in our neighborhoods.

I mean there is clearly more to this than just law enforcement, but sheesh, something has to be done.

The mayor, the police chief, somebody, needs to stop talking tough and start acting tough.

olvidarte wrote:I've been tired of the crime since long before this weekend's newest wave of violence. Places I feel/felt safe now have serious crimes happening and it's disconcerting.

I love living in the City, but even I get sick of the trash I live around, it's so tiring.

My question is what can the STLPD do? How can the City get much, much tougher on crime? Do criminals feel that there is no consequence for their bad actions in the City? It's almost like they feel they have a free pass to cause havok.

I have lived in my current neighborhood for over 2 years and I have never, not once, seen a patrol car driving down the streets. Maybe the police need to be more visible on a daily basis and not just in entertainment hot spots, etc. They need to be visible in our neighborhoods.

I mean there is clearly more to this than just law enforcement, but sheesh, something has to be done.

The mayor, the police chief, somebody, needs to stop talking tough and start acting tough.

All you have to do is look at New York. One of the safest cities now because police can stop and search anyone...etc

olvidarte wrote:Do criminals feel that there is no consequence for their bad actions in the City? It's almost like they feel they have a free pass to cause havoc.

Yes, that's how they feel, and they're correct to feel that way.

This story won't make any headlines since it barely had the attention of the police. On Friday evening, my in-laws went to Lumiere Place with friends, and my sister-in-law stayed behind at their house. Minutes later, she heard loud noises and commotion. A young kid driving a Jeep down their street in Mount Pleasant traveled at a rate of high speed and crashed into three cars, two of which belong to my in-laws. Apparently he was reaching onto the floor of the vehicle to grab a CD. It gets worse, though. People were getting out of the first car that this dolt crashed into, and the man that was already out of the car was getting his four year-old daughter out of the back seat. She was thrown across the sidewalk in the process and was taken to Cardinal Glennon Children's Medical Center. She has many bruises and some cuts, but thankfully, no major injuries. I should also point out that if it hadn't been for the girl's father, the driver probably would have fled the scene.

Meanwhile, the police took statements and then issued the man a ticket for improper display of license plates (the plates didn't match the vehicle). The driver suffered a minor injury and asked to be taken to the hospital. So, of course, he was not arrested, and as far as my in-laws know, he wasn't charged with any crimes beyond the display of invalid license plates.

So let me get this straight: You can drive carelessly and imprudently, cause bodily injury to a child, crash into three cars, and suffer no consequences? I'd like to believe the police will eventually arrest this cretin, but apparently they're in no rush. The father of the girl that was thrown from their car found the person where he lives and confronted him after he was released from the hospital. He didn't do anything to him beyond giving him a piece of his mind, but the irony is that he probably would have been arrested if he had done more, whereas this guy will only have to pay for what he did if the police can get around to arresting him.

I've always been quick to defend police because I realize their job is incredibly difficult, but this incident angers me as much as all of the senseless violence.

The mayor, the police chief, somebody, needs to stop talking tough and start acting tough.

Rawest1 has it right- nothing less than zero tolerance toward crime is acceptable. If the current police chief and mayor can't commit to that, it's time to find ones that will.

I can see the intersection from my place. It is definitely an uncomfortable feeling that this has to be a worry in the middle of the day. It seems like these criminals are getting bolder, and perhaps the police department needs to get bolder too. I haven't read much on the subject so I don't know what the appropriate response would be but to me it seems like police needs to become proactive.

^I echo the above comments about NY stop and frisk. I would be fine with random traffic stops as well. If you drive an Impala, you are getting your car searched. Sorry if you have one and don't commit crimes, but when it is literally the get-away vehicle in 95% of the crimes being committed that is slightly more than a coincidence.

newstl2020 wrote:^I echo the above comments about NY stop and frisk. I would be fine with random traffic stops as well. If you drive an Impala, you are getting your car searched. Sorry if you have one and don't commit crimes, but when it is literally the get-away vehicle in 95% of the crimes being committed that is slightly more than a coincidence.

There are three types of people I know that drive Impalas: the police, old people, and criminals. (I guess if you're an elderly rogue police officer, you definitely drive an Impala!)

Seriously, I am perfectly fine with random traffic stops, but I suspect the ACLU and the media here would have a fit and decry it as racial profiling.

^Is it racial profiling if there is a consistant racial profile of pretty much every individual commiting crimes in the city? Serious question. How does that definition work? Where is the line between profiling and actionable EXTENSIVE experience based police work?

Get mad if you want, but if you are trying to tell me there isn't an exact profile of 99% of the criminals in the city, you are either idealistic, moronic, insane, or all of the above. At what point do we stop trying to be PC and start trying to stop violent criminals from putting the final death nail in the coffin of the city?

newstl2020 wrote:^Is it racial profiling if there is a consistant racial profile of pretty much every individual commiting crimes in the city? Serious question. How does that definition work? Where is the line between profiling and actionable EXTENSIVE experience based police work?

Get mad if you want, but if you are trying to tell me there isn't an exact profile of 99% of the criminals in the city, you are either idealistic, moronic, insane, or all of the above. At what point do we stop trying to be PC and start trying to stop violent criminals from putting the final death nail in the coffin of the city?

The explanation the NYPD gives, is we are searching people in the neighborhoods where most of the crime happens. If that neighborhood happens to be 90% one race, then of course you are going to be searching more of one race than another.

^Makes plenty of sense to me.

I'm not sure how I feel about stop-and-frisk/random stops. There's an upside, but there's a real downside too, which is that it can undermine trust between the targeted community and the police. We already have a problem with people in St. Louis not trusting the police, which you have to think hurts law enforcement efforts since it cuts down the number of people willing to cooperate/inform police efforts. Since stop-and-frisk has being playing such a big role in policing in New York, the NYT has been doing a series on stop-and-frisk that lays out the issues well. Here's a sample:

Does stop-and-frish reduce crime?
At black church in Brookyln, Bloomberg defends stop-and-frisk policy
Better way to police than stop-and-frisk
Stop-and-frish controls praised in Philadephia

I pray they find this scum quickly, lock him up and get a good judge to rule on this case.

The sooner he bleeds out his ears after having umpteen million volts running through him in Jeff City the better.

rbeedee wrote:I'm not sure how I feel about stop-and-frisk/random stops. There's an upside, but there's a real downside too, which is that it can undermine trust between the targeted community and the police. We already have a problem with people in St. Louis not trusting the police, which you have to think hurts law enforcement efforts since it cuts down the number of people willing to cooperate/inform police efforts. Since stop-and-frisk has being playing such a big role in policing in New York, the NYT has been doing a series on stop-and-frisk that lays out the issues well. Here's a sample:

Does stop-and-frish reduce crime?
At black church in Brookyln, Bloomberg defends stop-and-frisk policy
Better way to police than stop-and-frisk
Stop-and-frish controls praised in Philadephia

You're right about the potential trust issues that come with the territory of a stop-and-frisk policy. But this city is at a point where we haven't got much to lose.

Here's some more food for thought: What about Kara Bowlin's irresponsible tweet? Saturday evening, not long after Megan Boken died, Bowlin (Mayor Slay's press secretary) tweeted that Boken knew the gunman that killed her. This, of course, led to rampant speculation about a drug deal gone wrong, or a violent boyfriend, and garden variety racist comments about the danger of a white woman being involved with a black man, none of which was germane to this incident.

I suppose Bowlin's tweet was a well-intended effort to ease people's fears as thousands of people were about to descend on the CWE for drinks, dinner, and entertainment on a beautiful Saturday evening. The trouble is, the police were focused on the investigation at the time, and there was nothing to indicate that what Bowlin said was a possibility.

And this is what troubles me about the Slay administration. He's been in office for eleven years, so we've seen this pattern play out repeatedly. Slay and his minions love to spin. I remember when Richard Callow came to this forum using a psuedonym a few years back and told people if they were upset about homeless people panhandling, perhaps New Town St. Charles was more appropriate for them. Slay tends not to comment much on crime until something simply cannot be ignored, like an attractive young woman senselessly gunned down in broad daylight in a busy and prosperous neighborhood. And then when he does comment, he ignores the elephant in the room (a broken justice system that sends repeat offenders back onto the streets so they can kill people) and goes for the easy political score (tougher gun laws, even though the real issue is enforcement of the gun laws on the books and the fact that most gun-related crimes are committed by people that possess firearms illegally).

On the balance, I think Mayor Slay has been good for the city, but I feel like criminals in this city are treated with kid gloves far too often, from the weak justice system to a seemingly indifferent administration. Mayor Slay said Chief Isom will soon speak out about targeted efforts to reduce violent crime. That can't happen soon enough. I think the SLMPD does a fine job overall, but I think the public needs to hear from Chief Isom more often about efforts to root out dangerous criminals.

And, as I said before, if the current mayor and police chief can't get the job done, it's time for us to support people that will.

^right - one has to wonder when the proverbial panic button will be pushed - no more "oh, most crime is over there, or at night, or committed by someone the victim knows..."

^ I couldn't agree more...very well said.

I typically oppose measures that could be used to usurp individual liberties like cameras, but I am fully in favor of camera use as a crime prevention tool. Criminals truly aren't as brazen if they think they're being watched.

As long as cameras are used solely as a law enforcement tool to deter violent crime and property crime and not to catch a motorist driving 36 mph in a 35 mph speed zone, I think most people would be in favor of camera usage.

I especially like the idea of cameras on the bridges leading into Illinois because perhaps then the police may have had an easier time catching the thug responsible for the hit-and-run at Washington Avenue and 14th Street this weekend. Whatever the reason, it seems like there's a rise in people crossing the bridge to commit crime, or at the very least, to be a nuisance to others. I really don't want all of the progress our city has made undermined by the unfortunate and senseless actions of a few lowlifes. This is getting old, and the talk is getting cheaper by the minute.

gone corporate wrote:STLtoday: Megan Boken was murdered after a failed robbery attempt
Source: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/ ... c6fbc.html

Hyperbole aside, whatever ends up happening as a result of this tragedy will likely determine the long-term future of the viability of STL City. We may have a whole generation of suburban parents who will now discourage their kids moving to the City in the face of her death. The citizenry of STL must stand up and demand real, effective change.

I don't want to see just a perp walk and a mugshot here; I want to see multiple arrests, from the people who helped hide the shooter from the police to whoever provided him with the gun. If he's in a gang, I want multiple gang members brought in. I want more cameras installed, not to have someone monitoring City corners at all times, but as a resource to photograph a perp in case a crime like this happens. And right now I'll welcome the frisking laws to go in place and ask that they be administered broadly, to help deter possible ACLU lawsuits and make sure that it gets carried out fairly & totally.

I don't want a photo of the shooter & his gun in custody called "justice" for Megan Boken.
I want the whole system that led to this brought down.

And in conjunction with news of the Wash Ave hit-and-run, I want cameras on all bridges in and out of Illinois. Again, not actively monitoring movement by a person sitting behind a desk at all hours to police-state us, but to use as a reference and real-time resource for when crimes like this do take place.

I agree that what happens with this will be a good example of where STL is headed in the future. If the community stands up and real changes are made that will make STL safe or if the residents, and government cower in fear while they attempt to forget about it.

SHE WAS HERE LOOKING FOR A JOB FOR CHR-- SAKE!

Everyone should use this as an opportunity. Contact Slay and Rainford on the crime spike. We all should demand results that not only stabilize the crime rate but significantly lower it. Please contact them. If we don't I am afraid it will be suppressed by the Mayor and staff.

Hyperbole aside, whatever ends up happening as a result of this tragedy will likely determine the long-term future of the viability of STL City. We may have a whole generation of suburban parents who will now discourage their kids moving to the City in the face of her death. The citizenry of STL must stand up and demand real, effective change.

SHE WAS HERE LOOKING FOR A JOB FOR CHR-- SAKE!

Since Mayor Slay does seem genuinely troubled by this (probably because Megan Boken was close to the age of his young adult children), I hope he keeps this in mind. St. Louis is generally welcoming to newcomers (aside from the trite high school question that still surfaces on occasion, I suppose) but nothing is as important as safety.

Ms. Boken was ready to leave her hometown of Chicago to return to St. Louis. Obviously this place mattered to her as much as it does to all of us. Damn, this is incredibly sad.

Downtown2007: Good advice. I plan to contact the mayor, his COS, and Chief Isom.