Well, it's a relief that what we thought were gunshots were fireworks. (But really, who shoots off fireworks in August?)
I think the city needs a ONE strike and you're out for at least 20 years. No exceptions. These brazen thugs have no regard for anything or anyone. They contribute nothing and cause the vast majority of the crimes. Who are these weak judges that just slap these peoples wrists? I'd like to see a list of judges and contact info to reach out to them.
- 2,772
Perhaps you aren't mentioning your stance, or you said it right over my head, but "stop & frisk" is a violation of our civil liberties. Yeah, a place where a cop can simply pull up next to me and frisk me for walking down the street is definitely the place I want to live. I would feel so warm and fuzzy - not to mention extra safe.ward24 wrote:Regardless of what you think about "Stop & Frisk" as a policy, good or bad, its definitely a policy based on a lot of people on the sidewalk, walking around, on public transportation, etc. Stop & Frisk doesn't really work the same way when people committing crimes are in cars - which they frequently are in St. Louis. So I'm not sure that's the way forward.
I believe what you meant to say was law-abiding citizens with no felonies and legally obtained weapons. I'm willing to bet you $500, right here on this forum, that the killer of Ms. Boken was not carrying a legally-obtained firearm, and probably didn't even have a CCW - shocking, I know. Let me know where I can mail the check. Why aren't many parts of St Louis County, like Kirkwood, Webster Groves, Affton, Maplewood, Richmond Heights, Clayton plagued by more crime? The guns are allowed in the cars of those adults as well right?ward24 wrote: The state makes the laws on all kinds of things - one of them being the fact that adults can drive around with guns, no questions asked.
We also live in (*near) a city where the Mayor immediately issues Tweets and statements about how badly we need federal gun laws enacted because of these gun crimes in the city. Meanwhile, he walks around with an armed bodyguard. Ohh, wait - he's a public figure - very important - he's not just some regular joe like me. We can't afford to have someone like Slay put at risk, just us "regulars". I've asked him about it over Twitter - he hasn't bothered to respond yet. He must be too busy.
http://gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.1 ... screen.pdf
All sources are posted in the booklet. I just grabbed a handful from page 20.Fact: 60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.
Fact: Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot.
Fact: 59% of the burglaries in Britain, which has tough gun control laws, are “hot burglaries”
which are burglaries committed while the home is occupied by the owner/renter. By contrast, the U.S., with more lenient gun control laws, has a “hot burglary” rate of only 13%.
Fact: Washington D.C. has essentially banned gun ownership since 1976 and has a murder rate of 56.9 per 100,000. Across the river in Arlington, Virginia, gun ownership is less restricted.
There, the murder rate is just 1.6 per 100,000, less than three percent of the Washington, D.C. rate.
Fact: In 1982, Kennesaw, GA passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate dropped 89% the following year.
Fact: A survey of felons revealed the following:
• 74% of felons agreed that, "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime."
• 57% of felons polled agreed, "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim
than they are about running into the police."
@juice
Those facts may be correct, but they are misleading and out of context. While americans are less likely to be home during a burglary, we are also 3.5 times more likely to be murdered than our brittish counterparts. Also, the comparison between DC and Arlington is unfair. Arlington county is one of the most afflunet and highly educated in the country, DC isn't.
Gun laws are a tough subject, with both sides spewing misinformation. I am a gun owner myself, but IMO guns are far to easy for criminals to get because of things like the gun show loophole and the more difficult issue of private sales. Anyone can buy a gun through online classifieds no questions asked, just like Craigslist.
http://www.armslist.com/classifieds/st- ... souri/guns
Those facts may be correct, but they are misleading and out of context. While americans are less likely to be home during a burglary, we are also 3.5 times more likely to be murdered than our brittish counterparts. Also, the comparison between DC and Arlington is unfair. Arlington county is one of the most afflunet and highly educated in the country, DC isn't.
Gun laws are a tough subject, with both sides spewing misinformation. I am a gun owner myself, but IMO guns are far to easy for criminals to get because of things like the gun show loophole and the more difficult issue of private sales. Anyone can buy a gun through online classifieds no questions asked, just like Craigslist.
http://www.armslist.com/classifieds/st- ... souri/guns
I don't know if it is related to the homicide over the weekend and increased police presence or just a random incident, but last night as I was coming home from work I saw a guy being patted down at Taylor and Pershing
- 3,767
I am not really sure what the answer is regarding crime in our City. If we had endless funds, more cops, more street teams, gang units, drug units, I'm sure it would make a difference. The real issue is lack of parenting, education, poverty and the negative influences that are around these kids at an early age. I'm not sure how you stop this issue in these impoverished, under-educated communities. More and more kids are born into this environment. It is a cycle that does not stop. For those people who do not
think it affects them, The Boken's probably never thought this issue would be so
prevalent in their lives. There is a reason that a person becomes a street thug that
does not view life as sacred or anything sacred for that matter. I get very angry at the end result, the murdering, disgusting, subhuman that commits these acts, yet if you
look just below the surface, the issue is so much greater than that. It is deep-rooted and does not appear to be ending soon. As much as I am all for a major increase in
law enforcement and more incarceration, it really has to start with young kids, education and parenting. I'm just frustrated and sick of the mess that exists in US cities right now. Guns make it too easy to kill, but on the otherhand, why should law-abiding citizens not have the right to own a gun. It is the criminals that should not have them, but the supply will always be there. Something MAJOR has change or I only see the crime problem getting worse.
think it affects them, The Boken's probably never thought this issue would be so
prevalent in their lives. There is a reason that a person becomes a street thug that
does not view life as sacred or anything sacred for that matter. I get very angry at the end result, the murdering, disgusting, subhuman that commits these acts, yet if you
look just below the surface, the issue is so much greater than that. It is deep-rooted and does not appear to be ending soon. As much as I am all for a major increase in
law enforcement and more incarceration, it really has to start with young kids, education and parenting. I'm just frustrated and sick of the mess that exists in US cities right now. Guns make it too easy to kill, but on the otherhand, why should law-abiding citizens not have the right to own a gun. It is the criminals that should not have them, but the supply will always be there. Something MAJOR has change or I only see the crime problem getting worse.
^ +1
Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. 34% and change. If we want less crime, then we have to get that number down around 25%.
Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. 34% and change. If we want less crime, then we have to get that number down around 25%.
- 5,433
Hoosiers.stlhistory wrote:(But really, who shoots off fireworks in August?)
Haven't seen Central Scrutinizer here in awhile. Somebody had to say it.
- 2,386
^No kidding. Where's he/she been?
Although now that this is aparently a "hipster" blog that probably sent him/her running for the hills.
Although now that this is aparently a "hipster" blog that probably sent him/her running for the hills.
- 8
How about heading through the parks (Soldiers Memorial, across from Union Station, anything on Market St. with trees and and park benches) and ask for ID's? It never feels safe anywhere during the day and especially at night down Market from 18th to Broadway if you have to criss-cross through there towards Washington Ave. Non stop police presence, just walking through, asking people to leave those benhces and parks would be a start. And move Larry Rice"s center to somewhere else. Doesnt need to be in that prime location of entertainment and housing. Theres a 1000 other things, but I will stop there I moved here 5 years ago thinking things were fine, now I want out of here, and don't feel like I can sell my place because of the negative vibe brought on when you mention Washington Aveneue. When you mention Wash Ave to an outsider, you dont hear, "Wow..I really hear they're building it up". I hear "Oh, where all the shootings are".
- 1,642
- 11K
Al Jazeera 24min video on homicides in Baltimore (+ older 40min Sky story on St. Louis gangs and the BBC's Delmar divide story):
http://www.nextstl.com/themedia/baltimo ... ican-media
http://www.nextstl.com/themedia/baltimo ... ican-media
I agree asking for ID's and making more of a presence would be a good start. Moving the Larry Rice center wouldn't do a lot except move some poor people away. The homeless aren't the ones doing the shootings. I doubt they can afford a gun if they can't afford to feed/shelter themselves.STLFAN505 wrote:
How about heading through the parks (Soldiers Memorial, across from Union Station, anything on Market St. with trees and and park benches) and ask for ID's? It never feels safe anywhere during the day and especially at night down Market from 18th to Broadway if you have to criss-cross through there towards Washington Ave. Non stop police presence, just walking through, asking people to leave those benhces and parks would be a start. And move Larry Rice"s center to somewhere else. Doesnt need to be in that prime location of entertainment and housing. Theres a 1000 other things, but I will stop there I moved here 5 years ago thinking things were fine, now I want out of here, and don't feel like I can sell my place because of the negative vibe brought on when you mention Washington Aveneue. When you mention Wash Ave to an outsider, you dont hear, "Wow..I really hear they're building it up". I hear "Oh, where all the shootings are".
Wasn't there something in New York, where they had a policy of frisking suspicious people and confiscating any guns? Why can't we implement something like that?
- 5,433
I really, really hope this is the right person. Megan Boken's family and friends deserve closure and reassurance justice will be served. Our community needs to heal and move forward, and if any good came out of this, hopefully people are now more vigilant wherever they go. Finally, I hope police have the right person because the thugs with no respect for human life and the law need to know that they will be caught!leeharveyawesome wrote:http://fox2now.com/status/18-year-old-black/
And I know it's not easy when SLMPD resources are being stretched and stripped, but I would still like to see a zero-tolerance mentality toward crime in this city.
I'd be willing to bet that the gun this punk used was illegally acquired (almost 100% chance) and that he had prior offenses (at least a 50% chance).
I appreciate Alderman Ogilvie chiming in earlier in this thread, and I think he brought up a lot of good points to consider. In my opinion, though, as much as I want to see the SLMPD take a zero-tolerance and tough stand against all crime, I also realize there's only so much they can do. In fact, they do a fine job of catching criminals, but if the courts can't keep them locked up, it's a nightmarish game of Whac-A-Mole for the police. So justice system reform also needs to be a priority. I haven't looked at Casenet in ages- is it possible to track judge's cases and the verdicts rendered there or somewhere else? I think a resource like this- completely opinion free and exclusively focused on the decisions rendered in cases of violent crime- would be a great way to flush out judges that are soft on crime. Just my $.02, of course...
Agreed!threeonefour wrote:I really, really hope this is the right person. Megan Boken's family and friends deserve closure and reassurance justice will be served. Our community needs to heal and move forward, and if any good came out of this, hopefully people are now more vigilant wherever they go. Finally, I hope police have the right person because the thugs with no respect for human life and the law need to know that they will be caught!leeharveyawesome wrote:http://fox2now.com/status/18-year-old-black/
As I checked out the link, I noticed another story about an attack Sunday evening on a Metrolink train near the CWE -- possible "knock-out game" incident. Channel 2 also reported on the news this morning that there were two incidents of attempted robbery in the CWE with an hour of each other (didn't catch the exact timeframe, and it's not on their website) earlier this week.
This really has got to stop. Nothing is going to scare people off like random attacks like this, in neighborhoods like the CWE that are supposedly "safe".
Alderman French is complaining on Facebook about how shifting resources to CWE has worsened crime in/near his ward.
As much money as others in this thread have pointed out is spent on crime prevention, clearly not enough is.
As much money as others in this thread have pointed out is spent on crime prevention, clearly not enough is.
- 8,155
^ agreed. I don't support national guard on streets, but I would love to see a federal program for putting more police on the streets of high crime cities like Saint Louis. It seems like a great program could put returning vets into police academies... of course, I'd want to see strict psych evaluations, cause too many are coming back f'd up, but this type of program would seem to have a number of benefits.
Also, too, I don't think StL PD has enough manpower to really do any kind of large scale community policing or stop and frisk actions even if that is what would be preferred.
Also, too, I don't think StL PD has enough manpower to really do any kind of large scale community policing or stop and frisk actions even if that is what would be preferred.
Great news with the quick arrests on the Megan Boken case.... and reading b/w the lines, these 2 18 yrs. may have also been responsible for last night's armed robbery of the women at Busch and probably other crimes as well.
- 1,642
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR: Online comments about Boken murder are unfortunate, says man equally disturbed by senseless violence and online comments.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/ma ... f6878.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/ma ... f6878.html
- 2,386
19 people shot overnight in Chicago
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... 9779.story
While we have obvious problems specific to St. Louis, it should be becoming pretty obvious that we have a serious problem with guns all over the country.
At least 10 people shot in New York this A.M.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/24/sh ... ?hpt=hp_t1
Let's just keep going in the same direction. This seems to be working out well.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... 9779.story
While we have obvious problems specific to St. Louis, it should be becoming pretty obvious that we have a serious problem with guns all over the country.
At least 10 people shot in New York this A.M.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/24/sh ... ?hpt=hp_t1
Let's just keep going in the same direction. This seems to be working out well.
- 1,642
Whatever we do let's not make this a race issue.
or
Police say many of the victims' lives were spared when the bullets deflected off an EBT card.
or
Are visits to the emergency room with gunshot wounds covered by Obamacare?
or
We need some head bashin' 1980s LAPD cops up in here.
or
Police say many of the victims' lives were spared when the bullets deflected off an EBT card.
or
Are visits to the emergency room with gunshot wounds covered by Obamacare?
or
We need some head bashin' 1980s LAPD cops up in here.
Can you clarify LHA? This isn't a race issue to begin with, it's a poverty->nihilism issue. The fact that STL crime usually involves blacks is irrelevant except for the history that created black ghettos and subsequent crime. Policing is great but it's a bandaid. Too many poor people too close to one another with basically no mitigating middle or upper class folks in the mix. Fix that, fix the crime problem.
- 1,642
Hey, I'm just goofing around killing time until it's late enough in the day to be deemed socially acceptable to start boozing.onecity wrote:Can you clarify LHA? This isn't a race issue to begin with, it's a poverty->nihilism issue. The fact that STL crime usually involves blacks is irrelevant except for the history that created black ghettos and subsequent crime. Policing is great but it's a bandaid. Too many poor people too close to one another with basically no mitigating middle or upper class folks in the mix. Fix that, fix the crime problem.
Again, IMHO, black folks had nicely functioning neighborhoods and strong families until the gubmint came along in the 60s and replaced the black man as head of household effectively destroying the family unit. If I was a black man (and I secretly wish I was) I'd be mad. I'll go to my grave believing that's the reason for the mess we have today.
- 11K
IMO - this describes the situation well. Think of it this way, take San Francisco, Boston, or whatever city it is that we're suppose to wish we were and:onecity wrote:Can you clarify LHA? This isn't a race issue to begin with, it's a poverty->nihilism issue. The fact that STL crime usually involves blacks is irrelevant except for the history that created black ghettos and subsequent crime. Policing is great but it's a bandaid. Too many poor people too close to one another with basically no mitigating middle or upper class folks in the mix. Fix that, fix the crime problem.
1) remove 90% of residents with college degrees
2) remove 90% of residents who earn an income above the poverty line
3) tell everyone remaining to figure out how to run the schools
4) tell everyone remaining to find educated, quality public servants
5) then sit back and lament the failings of the city
- 2,093
[quote="leeharveyawesome Again, IMHO, black folks had nicely functioning neighborhoods and strong families until the gubmint came along in the 60s and replaced the black man as head of household effectively destroying the family unit. If I was a black man (and I secretly wish I was) I'd be mad. I'll go to my grave believing that's the reason for the mess we have today.[/quote]
Yeah "black folk" had it great until that meddling federal government came along in the 1960's
Are you for real or has the boozing already begun?
Yeah "black folk" had it great until that meddling federal government came along in the 1960's
Are you for real or has the boozing already begun?