Eh it depends. As stated before on prior pages, Bourbon street is likely the place where you will see the greatest police presence you will ever see. Do people think it is unsafe? Not in the way we are probably speaking about here.
I agree that it is a very slippery slope, however, especially if people aren't seeing big crowds. Then there could definitely be the perception of an unsafe area.
The police presence isn't that intimidating. It's actually comforting. Wash Ave is very vibrant and generally a good atmosphere until after midnight when things get interesting and a bit annoying. Feel free to continue to come down.
Some of this crime is overly ridiculous. Like, why is a 17 year old around Wash ave at midnight anyway? Isn't everything 21 and up? And why are they having a shoot out one block north of a heavily patrolled area? Seems like either they dont care about getting caught or they know they wont get caught. Seems ballsy.
^Agree. It's totally insane and they figure they won't be caught. I wonder what the motive of the shooting was.
Like I said its a bunch of kids roaming around like in the Loop. Technically a 17 year old is allowed since curfew is younger than 17. That has to change.
I am not certain how true this is, obviously there is a disrupt in normal habits, but KMOX insinuates that the crackdown in ESTL us causing them to migrate over. Might be true. Something is defiantly going on.
stlien wrote:Some of this crime is overly ridiculous. Like, why is a 17 year old around Wash ave at midnight anyway? Isn't everything 21 and up? And why are they having a shoot out one block north of a heavily patrolled area? Seems like either they dont care about getting caught or they know they wont get caught. Seems ballsy.
I've been thinking about this, and I think I've found a solution to the problems of gang-related shootings in our City: Code Duello. If people insist on senselessly killing others (ultimately resulting in risk to their own life by a rival gang member), then at least they can do it with some sense of decorum, right? And it removes the general public out of "friendly" fire too.
Kidding, of course. Not a solution to gun violence at all.
ugh... i grew up on the 3600 block of montana. it hurts to see this kind of sh*t happening down there. back in the 80s and early 90s it felt absolutely safe. i checked it out on google recently and it still looks to be in good shape. not sure where this is all coming from. back then, though, the corner store at grand and montana sold garbage pail kids and candy and groceries. now it sells cell phones and payday loans.
Alex Ihnen wrote:To be honest, none of this makes we want to go to Washington Avenue Friday or Saturday night. Is the police presence and blocked off street really making people safer?
That's what I think as well. To me, the additional police presence would be a bit jarring, especially if I wasn't from St. Louis. It seems like it would reinforce the "Most Dangerous City" rankings that many people have no doubt heard about at one time or another. It also seems like it's not the best deterrent to crime if people are simply loitering on side streets or shooting people one block away from the big show of force. I also think taking vehicular traffic off the streets takes the life out of the area to some extent.
I support the SLMPD and whatever they need to do to improve safety in the area, but ultimately I think curfews need to be looked at more seriously as well as tougher enforcement of laws already on the books. Even where I live, there are young people out in the streets when there's no real reason for them to be there. And whenever I call the police, they choose not to respond more often than not. I love city living, but stuff like that makes it discouraging at times.
Alex Ihnen wrote:To be honest, none of this makes we want to go to Washington Avenue Friday or Saturday night. Is the police presence and blocked off street really making people safer?
...
I support the SLMPD and whatever they need to do to improve safety in the area, but ultimately I think curfews need to be looked at more seriously as well as tougher enforcement of laws already on the books...
Someone was shot in Hampton Gardens, south of Forest Park.
What a shame, I'm not too familiar but I think that's a nicer "safer" part of the city.
It is a safer part of the city. I looked into renting in that complex a decade or so ago,but the apartments are way tiny and too expensive for the square footage
Rando trivia: it's built on the site of a former Potter's Field.
After moving to Soulard after over four years along Washinton Avenue, it’s really sad to hear of how much it’s gone down because of the non-resident weekend partiers ruining the atmosphere, whether from West County or North City. I heard someone describe it recently as that the Landing just moved a mile west…
Non-Crime Related: Last Saturday, driving home from the last night of the Tin Can on Locust (gone too soon), I drove east on Wash Ave around 315AM. At the NW corner of Wash & 14th, I pulled my car over immediately when I saw a young girl, possibly college age, laying flat on the ground & not moving at all. Getting out of my car to check on her, I saw that there was a guy & a girl maybe fifteen feet around the building’s corner on the 14th Street side. The guy told me that the girls were both smashed, that he had just met them both earlier that night, and that he found himself unfortunately taking care of them. No foul play, and the guy wasn’t acting like a date rapist. Poor sucker was trying to help. He helps the one along 14th to stand, and she falls along me & asks for a ride (she wasn’t sure where her car was).
Meanwhile, a co-ed crowd of 8-10 people come up to the one passed out on the Wash Ave side, circle around the girl on the ground, and start making jokes. At least 3 people pulled out their phones to take pictures (I bet I’m somewhere out there in an online video by now, just standing in the background). No one lends a hand or shows concern. One gal laughs & shouts out, “That’s what you get for partying with white people!” The Samaritan/sucker guy starts attending to the passed out girl on Wash Ave, and the crowd (not wanting to help) moves on down the street.
After 3 minutes trying to corral these drunk chicks, I help their new best friend (and savior from sexual assault) get them in a cab before the one who was just passed out on Washington starts walking past the cab and down 14th Street. Meanwhile, I can say that this one, upon waking up, had just told me she wasn’t real sure where she was, and that she wanted to walk back home to the County.
Now, this isn’t crime per-se, but is this what’s now happening to Washington Avenue?
Landing behavior along the condos & boutiques?
Back to Crime: My friend told me his sister’s building, the Ely Walker, had some gunfire in it recently (don’t know the date), that it originated in an impromptu house party within the building, that it was thrown by underage kids possibly house-sitting, that there was a fight between the kids for something mundane, that one pulled a gun & started shooting, and that the condo next door to my friend’s sister had bullets flying into it from this party.
Meanwhile, the Ely Walker Building’s condo owners association is not too happy but find themselves unable to do too much, as the building owner keeps renting out whatever’s open to whomever they can (the Great Recession lives on...).
gone corporate wrote:After moving to Soulard after over four years along Washinton Avenue, it’s really sad to hear of how much it’s gone down because of the non-resident weekend partiers ruining the atmosphere, whether from West County or North City. I heard someone describe it recently as that the Landing just moved a mile west…
Non-Crime Related: Last Saturday, driving home from the last night of the Tin Can on Locust (gone too soon), I drove east on Wash Ave around 315AM. At the NW corner of Wash & 14th, I pulled my car over immediately when I saw a young girl, possibly college age, laying flat on the ground & not moving at all. Getting out of my car to check on her, I saw that there was a guy & a girl maybe fifteen feet around the building’s corner on the 14th Street side. The guy told me that the girls were both smashed, that he had just met them both earlier that night, and that he found himself unfortunately taking care of them. No foul play, and the guy wasn’t acting like a date rapist. Poor sucker was trying to help. He helps the one along 14th to stand, and she falls along me & asks for a ride (she wasn’t sure where her car was).
Meanwhile, a co-ed crowd of 8-10 people come up to the one passed out on the Wash Ave side, circle around the girl on the ground, and start making jokes. At least 3 people pulled out their phones to take pictures (I bet I’m somewhere out there in an online video by now, just standing in the background). No one lends a hand or shows concern. One gal laughs & shouts out, “That’s what you get for partying with white people!” The Samaritan/sucker guy starts attending to the passed out girl on Wash Ave, and the crowd (not wanting to help) moves on down the street.
After 3 minutes trying to corral these drunk chicks, I help their new best friend (and savior from sexual assault) get them in a cab before the one who was just passed out on Washington starts walking past the cab and down 14th Street. Meanwhile, I can say that this one, upon waking up, had just told me she wasn’t real sure where she was, and that she wanted to walk back home to the County.
Now, this isn’t crime per-se, but is this what’s now happening to Washington Avenue?
Landing behavior along the condos & boutiques?
Back to Crime: My friend told me his sister’s building, the Ely Walker, had some gunfire in it recently (don’t know the date), that it originated in an impromptu house party within the building, that it was thrown by underage kids possibly house-sitting, that there was a fight between the kids for something mundane, that one pulled a gun & started shooting, and that the condo next door to my friend’s sister had bullets flying into it from this party.
Meanwhile, the Ely Walker Building’s condo owners association is not too happy but find themselves unable to do too much, as the building owner keeps renting out whatever’s open to whomever they can (the Great Recession lives on...).
Whoa wait a second. Yes there was a shooting but it's my understanding the tenet was evicted. There hasn't been any issues since. From your friends knowledge, is this not the case?
Also can you expand on the "leasing out units to whomever they can"? The follow the same procedures that any other (credit and background checks) that any other place would. Is this not the case?
Also rents are still over $1 per square foot. That's not exactly low rent. Anyway just wanted to point this out.
Also anytime you have a collection of bars open to 3am there is going to be a lot of drunkards. Not much different than Soulard, just a few extra hours.
^ You probably know more than me. I'd surely hope the tenant was evicted, and personally would prefer if they had been removed tied to a post and fed to a pen full of hungry pigs. In my posting, I did not represent knowledge of what happened to that tenant, but I'm pretty damn sure they're straight-up gone.
"Leasing out units to whomever they can": I refer to how the building started as condos, but has reverted to having 50%+ of the units now available to renters from the building management (as opposed to private-party absent landowners). And with that, I've just heard that plenty of rental tenants represent a varied demographic mix, not for ethnicity but for socioeconomics. Where it was to be a luxurious condo building, it's now a rather mixed rental house with condo owners angry that they cannot make a market for their condos when the units around them are available for rent. I cannot speak as to how the building management conducts credit or background checks.
Simply, from what I've heard, the renters differ from the owners in their care of & disposition for the building itself, and that has further hampered any potential ROI, let alone hope for breaking even.
My opinion on the building is a little different. There may have been a slight change in renters but it hasn't been drastic. I have seen the rental application and it isn't any different than any other place. Like I said, renters are still paying more for rent than you would on a mortage for a 160k house. Rents for a 1 bedroom are easily over 1000 and supply is limited downtown. The incident was a disaster and I agree with your punishment. There havent been any issues since.
The major issue we are having are the loiterers that hang out after midnight and dont spend any money at any of the establishments. It just started happening at the beginning of June. It's can be fixed but needs to be properly addressed.
The main problem for Ely Walker(among other buildings) is that they are not eligible for federally insured mortgages due to the ratio of owner occupied units to rentals, being west of 14th doesn't help either.
Agree with 2007 about the loitering issue. Recently closing down Washington and checking ID's has helped, but I don't think it is a realistic long term solution.
