https://explorestlouis.com/wp-content/u ... r-2024.pdftbspqr wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2024https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... garage.cfmSTLCityMike wrote: ↑Oct 16, 2024Does anyone have info on what the expansion will mean for exhibition space? I tried to look online as at best i see adding 72,000 square feet but it seems like it has to be more that that? I can't recall if the garage on 7th is also being converted to convention space? May be I should go back in this thread.
July 30, 2021
"Plans for the site are in development, and CVC anticipates demolition of the garage in the near term, with additional plans announced at a later date."
https://explorestlouis.com/wp-content/u ... y-2023.pdf
February 2023
"Demolition of the garage is complete, the surface has been leveled, and it’s awaiting asphalt paving, which will make way for staff and contractor parking in the near term during construction."
https://explorestlouis.com/wp-content/u ... r-2023.pdf
October 2023
"On the east side of the complex near the Convention Plaza Entrance, construction is completed after demolishing a circa 1962 privately owned parking garage and converting it into a paved and gated lot for staff parking."
Google search can't find anything newer.
- 6,118
^4X seems to be included in the center's current literature and in the 574K sq. ft. figure.
https://explorestlouis.com/wp-content/u ... -25-24.pdf
I think STLCityMike saw the 4X expansion figures and wanted to know what a possible expansion into the garage space would add. But it looks like that might be a part of the next phase, if that ever happens, and not the current one. That might have been the proposed location for the 65K sq. ft. ground floor ballroom.
https://fentressarchitects.com/project/ ... expansion/
This presentation from Kwame Building Group hints at the original plan a bit, discussing 92K sq. ft. of additional exhibit space, a 60K sq. ft. ballroom, and a 20K sq. ft. prefunction space.
https://kwamebuildinggroup.com/the-amer ... -approval/
This video makes it a little more clear what was meant by the ballroom and prefunction spaces. Apparently the idea was to expand halls 1 and possibly also 2 with a new entrance pavilion and to connect them to the outdoor space:
That won't provide terribly much additional square footage of exhibition space (they were really only talking 92K with both phases), but it will make what's there more flexible and give some of it a little more pizazz, which is a good thing.
But some of the videos and presentations talk about those mysterious "later developments." And I don't see anything beyond a "team park" planned for the garage, which seems a real lost opportunity, so I imagine they hope to do something with it eventually. (And with the other parking lots, and maybe even with the Holiday Inn if they can get their hands on it.)
So, yeah, there's a new exhibition hall, and everything should flow together better now. And the loading docks are a pretty big deal, actually. The extra space keeps the place in the game, but more is needed, which will require more money and more time and more planning. Thankfully, they at least have most of the space already.
https://explorestlouis.com/wp-content/u ... -25-24.pdf
I think STLCityMike saw the 4X expansion figures and wanted to know what a possible expansion into the garage space would add. But it looks like that might be a part of the next phase, if that ever happens, and not the current one. That might have been the proposed location for the 65K sq. ft. ground floor ballroom.
https://fentressarchitects.com/project/ ... expansion/
This presentation from Kwame Building Group hints at the original plan a bit, discussing 92K sq. ft. of additional exhibit space, a 60K sq. ft. ballroom, and a 20K sq. ft. prefunction space.
https://kwamebuildinggroup.com/the-amer ... -approval/
This video makes it a little more clear what was meant by the ballroom and prefunction spaces. Apparently the idea was to expand halls 1 and possibly also 2 with a new entrance pavilion and to connect them to the outdoor space:
That won't provide terribly much additional square footage of exhibition space (they were really only talking 92K with both phases), but it will make what's there more flexible and give some of it a little more pizazz, which is a good thing.
But some of the videos and presentations talk about those mysterious "later developments." And I don't see anything beyond a "team park" planned for the garage, which seems a real lost opportunity, so I imagine they hope to do something with it eventually. (And with the other parking lots, and maybe even with the Holiday Inn if they can get their hands on it.)
So, yeah, there's a new exhibition hall, and everything should flow together better now. And the loading docks are a pretty big deal, actually. The extra space keeps the place in the game, but more is needed, which will require more money and more time and more planning. Thankfully, they at least have most of the space already.
- 398
Yes - I am surprised all of this expansion only adds 4X and 72K more exhibition space. I do understand that with 4X has the ability to combine with 4 and 5 - but leveling a garage for street level parking seems like a loss. And now that I think about it, I have been there for Battlehawks games and do recall that surface parking lot there. For the sake of our street grid, that space should have been used for exhibition expansion. I also realize that I am not nearly as educated as the developers. In the end if the current expansion increases business brought to town and our competitive edge, it is good for the city.
IIRC, the demolished garage on 7th isn't really related to the current expansion project. The city was able to purchase the 7th street garage from a long-time, holdout private owner, so they grabbed it while they could. The timing just so happened to overlap with the expansion project. The garage needed to be demoed, so for now it's a surface lot.
- 8,904
How are we going to recoup that money spent on the dome upgrades? Is some Battlehawk money enough?
- 9,539
The NFL is paying for it. This is from the $70,000,000 that the dome got from the settlement.moorlander wrote: ↑Oct 24, 2024How are we going to recoup that money spent on the dome upgrades? Is some Battlehawk money enough?
Battlehawks will use the building for 6 home games next season (they got an extra one because of scheduling) but the dome hosts 30-50 events a year, including the annual band competition which is back this weekend
- 916
The dome should try to host as much things that require a football field as possible since we have it. A college bowl game and some neutral site opening game every year. It’s perfect for the weather challenges for the bowls in December and the early college games in September. A Mizzou game once a year like they did last year. Try to get an Illinois game and a mid major conference champion game. They need to be proactive but I think they can realistically get 10-12 games out of the place a year.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Oct 24, 2024The NFL is paying for it. This is from the $70,000,000 that the dome got from the settlement.moorlander wrote: ↑Oct 24, 2024How are we going to recoup that money spent on the dome upgrades? Is some Battlehawk money enough?
Battlehawks will use the building for 6 home games next season (they got an extra one because of scheduling) but the dome hosts 30-50 events a year, including the annual band competition which is back this weekend
- 398
I thought I read they were hosting the UFL Championship next season also. Hoping the Battlehawks have another great season. I think they have more games this coming season with San Antonio!
There has been some talk of the Illini mizzou game coming back. They are on the schedule for 8 games over a decade starting in a couple years. Would be nice to see a couple of those played here. Rotate it between the 3 sites.
- 1,290
Perused some of the marching band forums after the BoA Super Regional that just wrapped up at the Dome; it seems that people were extremely appreciative of the new turf and LED lighting. Also saw multiple people praising the food options as being much better than in years past. It's not much, but every little bit helps with perception.
Is there movement on the park or has that ship sailed?
Whatever happen to that terrible RFP the city did which recommended a parking garage...
Whatever happen to that terrible RFP the city did which recommended a parking garage...
It’s because the done accounts for 1.7 million of those square feet. Remove the dome and it’s less than KC or IND by a pretty wide margin.STLCityMike wrote:I didn't realize (according to Wikipedia) America's Center is the 7th largest convention space in the country. I am not sure what the total space will be once complete. For now, the total space is twice that of Indianapolis, and over 3 times the total space of KC. Man, McCormick place is a BEAST and about 3x the total space as America's center. Anyway, I hope this can increase more events.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... sular_area
- 9,539
It’s more than KC by 200,000 sq without the dome (270,000 when new hall is done) and Indy is 230,000 bigger. But why do we need to take the dome out, it’s an assert that’s connected and part of CC, and the floor is often used for conventions.ldai_phs wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2025It’s because the done accounts for 1.7 million of those square feet. Remove the dome and it’s less than KC or IND by a pretty wide margin.STLCityMike wrote:I didn't realize (according to Wikipedia) America's Center is the 7th largest convention space in the country. I am not sure what the total space will be once complete. For now, the total space is twice that of Indianapolis, and over 3 times the total space of KC. Man, McCormick place is a BEAST and about 3x the total space as America's center. Anyway, I hope this can increase more events.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... sular_area
- 1,607
I think another future expansion and additional hotel across the street to the Bottleworks lot would be a logical next step. I've been to several convention centers that have access over a street (bridge or full building over) to another hall/wing.
- 916
Yes, those 4 blocks of empty land look horrible coming off the bridge. So, that would be there natural expansion. I wish the high rise plan would come back but it’s just sat rotting for so long. And there’s 4 surface lots that should be filled in between Convention Plaza and Lucas for more space. The more coherent all that area is, the more efficient and attractive it will be for events.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2025I think another future expansion and additional hotel across the street to the Bottleworks lot would be a logical next step. I've been to several convention centers that have access over a street (bridge or full building over) to another hall/wing.
There are also 15 blocks of housing projects. In no way advocating for a change there, but the reality is most other major cities (Chicago being the most extreme transgressor), have moved those types of complexes away from surrounding downtown. Long ways away from that probably happening but another thing that might shift in the area
- 398
I think expansion to the north is great, just please don't close anymore streets. Our downtown is so disconnected. I know I have read many heal the grid posts here, but I really think that applies to downtown as well.
I agree and had posted another hotel would be much utilizedTheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:I think another future expansion and additional hotel across the street to the Bottleworks lot would be a logical next step. I've been to several convention centers that have access over a street (bridge or full building over) to another hall/wing.
- 3,757
I am wondering the same thing. Why has STL not pursued a college football bowl. There are a ton of bowls, but we have a nice indoor facility be underutilized. With the right sponsors, this could be a nice bowl, bring some revenue to the City and region, as well as get us some PR. Memphis, Baton Rouge and others have bowls. Why not STL?! I know the Cardinals talked about it a few years back, but I guess that died on the vine.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Oct 24, 2024The dome should try to host as much things that require a football field as possible since we have it. A college bowl game and some neutral site opening game every year. It’s perfect for the weather challenges for the bowls in December and the early college games in September. A Mizzou game once a year like they did last year. Try to get an Illinois game and a mid major conference champion game. They need to be proactive but I think they can realistically get 10-12 games out of the place a year.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Oct 24, 2024The NFL is paying for it. This is from the $70,000,000 that the dome got from the settlement.moorlander wrote: ↑Oct 24, 2024How are we going to recoup that money spent on the dome upgrades? Is some Battlehawk money enough?
Battlehawks will use the building for 6 home games next season (they got an extra one because of scheduling) but the dome hosts 30-50 events a year, including the annual band competition which is back this weekend
- 1,794
Isn’t Explore StL creating that backstop fund to guaranty a return for certain events? Maybe without that guaranty, the Dome was unable to compete with other venues when pitching bowl games.
Maybe DB knows.
Edit: It’s the Sports Commission
https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/st-lo ... vents/amp/
Maybe DB knows.
Edit: It’s the Sports Commission
https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/st-lo ... vents/amp/
Every other city has a pretty mid level bowl game (they pretty much all are if they aren’t in the playoff) so we may as well grab one too. Make use of the Dome so people don’t slam it as a white elephant.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- 916
St. Louis would be a top choice if offered. More hotels, corporate sponsor opportunities, and better geographic location than most host cities and indoors for the late december season. St. Louis also has to be one of the largest metros without a major college football program I would think? So, it would be nice to add as an element to our sports scene.
- 1,794
Maybe bowl season competes with conventions that want to use the dome?
My thought is a little different as Drury is sitting on an empty Laclede's Landing lot perfectly situated and surrounded by Arch Grounds, Casino and a convention center as well as a very short walk to metrolink station. At same time the Convention Center to me would be better suited to expand in the immediate future and take over the south east block if i got it right by striking a deal with Drury which I believe still has a hotel ther (maybe mistaken). Time to strike a deal for adding/pushing rooms over to Laclede's landing and creatively reverting a block to convention space but keep street intact.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2025I think another future expansion and additional hotel across the street to the Bottleworks lot would be a logical next step. I've been to several convention centers that have access over a street (bridge or full building over) to another hall/wing.
My grander vision is replacing the raised portion of freeway between Wash Ave and Cass Ave with blvd & with Wash Ave & Cass Ave being at grade intersections. Bottlework site gets divy up into blocks and push for townhouse/rowhouse/mixed used/residential. The future for dome is being replaced whit traditional convention floor space and a dome like structure on North Riverfront tied in with casino/more hotel rooms on Lacledes.