urbanSTL

We had a lot of interest from a lot of restauranteurs including many who were interested in opening another more upscale establishment,” Wagman said. “But we now have a few years of experience under our belt with Citygarden and the Terrace View, and we think this approach makes a lot of sense.

As someone who has lived just blocks away from Citygarden since before it opened and thought it was one of the best things to happen to downtown in recent memory this is disappointing to me. Not trying to personally criticize anyone but to think that we'd even entertain the idea of putting a fast food chain in this location is just disappointing. I don't know the whole plan/style scheme for "Joe's Chili Bowl" but by the sound of it, its not a lot better. To me, this speaks volumes about how much St. Louis values art/culture/class and its not saying something good.

terence d wrote:

We had a lot of interest from a lot of restauranteurs including many who were interested in opening another more upscale establishment,” Wagman said. “But we now have a few years of experience under our belt with Citygarden and the Terrace View, and we think this approach makes a lot of sense.

As someone who has lived just blocks away from Citygarden since before it opened and thought it was one of the best things to happen to downtown in recent memory this is disappointing to me. Not trying to personally criticize anyone but to think that we'd even entertain the idea of putting a fast food chain in this location is just disappointing. I don't know the whole plan/style scheme for "Joe's Chili Bowl" but by the sound of it, its not a lot better. To me, this speaks volumes about how much St. Louis values art/culture/class and its not saying something good.

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss "Joe's Chili Bowl." Any regular food, if given a little bit of love and creativity, can be something unique. Just look a couple blocks north to the amazing burgers coming out of Bailey's Range. A Kim Tucci-owned restaurant doesn't really inspire quirkiness -- but who knows, "Joe's Chili Bowl" may revolutionize the bowl of chili.

With the Terrace View space as beautiful and modern as it is, I can at least have some confidence that we won't have a hairy, dirty, beater-clad bum slinging runny chili out of a 40 gallon drum.

Most of the users of City Garden are casual users. Why wouldn't it make sense for a casual restaurant instead of an upscale one? I think City Garden will be more attractive with a practical restaurant.

the central scrutinizer wrote:

newstl2020 wrote:Was REALLY holding out hope for Danny Meyer stepping up to the plate with a Shake Shack for his hometown. Too bad.

Also, as a side note, this would make a kick-ass location for the midwest's first In-and-Out.

There's a Hardee's right across the street.

And?

terence d wrote:

We had a lot of interest from a lot of restauranteurs including many who were interested in opening another more upscale establishment,” Wagman said. “But we now have a few years of experience under our belt with Citygarden and the Terrace View, and we think this approach makes a lot of sense.

As someone who has lived just blocks away from Citygarden since before it opened and thought it was one of the best things to happen to downtown in recent memory this is disappointing to me. Not trying to personally criticize anyone but to think that we'd even entertain the idea of putting a fast food chain in this location is just disappointing. I don't know the whole plan/style scheme for "Joe's Chili Bowl" but by the sound of it, its not a lot better. To me, this speaks volumes about how much St. Louis values art/culture/class and its not saying something good.

Yeah you are right. There's a Shake Shack doing gangbusters business in Central Park in New York. Probably why everyone always says New York has no culture. No class. Speaks volumes about their lack of any artistic scene.

I'm in Citygarden three times a day walking the dog. And as a downtown real estate agent as well as a downtown resident this looks to be exactly what Citygarden needs. The menu will appeal to the masses and love the idea of being able to have breakfast on the patio of a morning. What a way to start off your day. Hope they have a quick serve kind of a take-out window too as would be great to grab a drink and a snack as I pass through. If done right this could be a huge success!

I have not doubt that the CityGarden is the primary new feature downtown that attracted Peabody Coal headquarters, the SLU Law School, and the rumored purchase and re-opening of a business in the long empty General America building.

I would think replacing the parking lot and railyard downtown with Choutea Lake would draw many more institutions downtown. That land would certainly be more valuable to the city as a lake than as a raildroad switching yard. We have those all over the metro area.

I would also like to see a modern art museum downtown. Adults on a business trip to St. Louis would have another varied attraction to visit in the cooler months. I point to the one in downtown Glasgow, a city about the size of St. Louis.

Let's hope they can make a decent coney island. All criicism would cease immediatley.

According to the Beacon article the new restaurant is scheduled to open on April 13th. Looking into the windows yesterday shows absolutely no signs of any kind of work being done yet.

I just walked by. There is some construction going on inside. I asked the construction worker when they would be done. He said that it would only take a week to do the work that they were hired to do.

newstl2020 wrote: Yeah you are right. There's a Shake Shack doing gangbusters business in Central Park in New York. Probably why everyone always says New York has no culture. No class. Speaks volumes about their lack of any artistic scene.

Nice try. This comparison would only be valid if there were no other upscale, contemporary dining establishments in Central Park and only Shake Shakes doing "gangbusters" in all of Central Park.

In addition, Central Park is more on par w/ Forest Park as first and foremost an area for recreation where at Citygarden art is at the forefront. Yes, yes, the Met is on the edge of the park, the Guggenheim is across the street but neither are "the park" as sculpture is to Citygarden. A burger and shake place is more appropriate for what is first and foremost, a park.

As for the sarcasm? Your life, feel free to use it to battle what is, but doing so will help keep St. Louis what St. Louis has been for so long and is anti what this entire forum has always seemed to be about. In addition, actions based on this kind of reaction flushes your right to complain next time we get passed over by an up and coming firm or when entrepreneurs and start-up designers move away all looking for a city a bit more "cosmopolitan".

We clearly have a good amount of great art and culture happening in a lot of neighborhoods here and there in St. Louis but taking it to the next level and also creating a downtown with class?...

In the end we can look no farther than ourselves for making this city what it is. You get out of it what you put into it. You can bank on that.

^Your evaluation of the city based on one dining establishment that you have not patronized nor seen the menu of did and still does make absolutely no sense.

For the record (and certainly not to egg this exchange on) there is no Shake Shack in Central Park. The original Shake Shack is in Madison Square Park, which is a small very urban park that, somewhat akin to CityGarden, has rotating contemporary sculpture installations.

Link to information on the sculpture installations there: http://www.madisonsquarepark.org/art

I love Shake Shack, and eat there far too often, but a St. Louis based small business that has an opportunity to create its own successful model is a great tenant. St. Louis used to have O.T. Hodge around town, Cincy is famous for it's Skyline Chili, perhaps a really good chili place could take off and have a little more local color (aka T-Ravs) than a Shake Shack.

http://joeschilibowl.com/

^Paints with broad strokes, apparently.

newstl2020 wrote:^Your evaluation of the city based on one dining establishment that you have not patronized nor seen the menu of did and still does make absolutely no sense.

Possibly it was misconstrued or I didn't communicate it as effectively as I intended but my original, most visceral, comments were largely in reference to the calls to erect (essentially, if not literally) a fast food establishment on the grounds. It has really very little to do with this establishment or even the Citygarden and more to do with choices I see sometimes being made in St. Louis.

That said, I am disappointed something a little more formal than an establishment that touts it's slinger as the most prominent item on the menu is not going in. (Thats not a joke, look at the menu). However, I wish Joe's the best of success. I give them major credit for being open far more than just the weekday lunch hour. And who knows, maybe a popular Joe's will help awareness of art in the STL. I mean, it takes a while to eat a slinger, you got time to look out the window.

Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to clarify: Downtown St. Louis is a unique, beautiful place; a treasure. I've spent countless hours over the years fascinated with what downtown is. From admiring the architecture and craftsmanship to tilling the soil of downtown with my own hands, to feeding its homeless (while politely asking them not to touch me) - I wouldn't chose to live anywhere else in the St. Louis area but here.

And many of downtown's residents? I've come to know some of the smartest, earnest, most caring, classiest, hardworking people I've ever known. In no way did I mean any disrespect in my previous words. If they sounded harsh, I'm sure it was merely with frustration in things that (from my point of view) sometimes seem to keep downtown and St. Louis itself, from being its best.

I went downtown for the 4th of July to see the fireworks on the riverfront. Since the Metro is always packed for hours after the show my friends (some of whom were visiting the city on vacation) and I stayed downtown for a few hours, and I thought downtown missed some opportunities to sell itself to one of the biggest crowds it sees. Culinaria, for example, could have moved a ton of gelato if it stayed open past the usual closing time.

What was worse was that Citygarden shut down pretty early. I know the park officially closes at ten but I've been to Citygarden later than that other nights and the guards are usually pretty accommodating. My friends and I wandered in just before 11 to show it off to some out-of-towners and the fountains/lights were off and we were told that we weren't allowed to sit on the rock wall and eat our ice cream. Citygarden is one of the jewels of downtown St. Louis, it's a shame the hours weren't adjusted for this special occasion so it could be shown off to all those visitors milling about waiting for trains/traffic to clear up.