Centene Corporation HQs

dbInSouthCity · PostJun 14, 2016#7262016-06-14T15:46+00:00

shadrach wrote:^Yes! Busch stadium has a capacity near 50K, average game, what, 20-30K?

after 31 home games, the average attendance has been 43,464 per game. on pace for 3,520,584
already sold 3,240,000 tickets for 2016- add walk up for the last 50 home games and it will be over 3.5M for the year.

Since it opened- total/ average (not counting playoffs)
2015- 3,520,889/43,467
2014- 3,540,649/43,711
2013-3,369,769/41,602
2012-3,262,109/40,272
2011-3,093,954/38,196
2010-3,301,218/40,755
2009-3,343,252/41,274
2008-3,430,660/42,353
2007-3,552,180/43,854
2006-3,447,114/42,588

Also have had 39 home games in the playoffs since 2006 at an average of 47,000 = 1,833,000

combined, 35,694,814 have been to Busch for baseball in the last 10 seasons + another 3.5M in 2016.

shadrach · PostJun 14, 2016#7272016-06-14T16:37+00:00

^I intentionally lowballed my numbers. My point was that even if attendance were 20K, that low number is still like 10X more than the jobs Centene is adding to the area.

Those actual numbers you posted only further point out how ridiculous the 'it'll be like Busch stadium letting out everyday' comment is.

I should know by now with this forum—check google and get your facts airtight—before you post anything.

moorlander · PostJun 17, 2016#7282016-06-17T17:35+00:00

$147 million in incentives requested

The $771 million project would add 1000 employees, many of which would relocate from Health Net in California.

http://m.stltoday.com/business/local/ce ... e09ab.html

Randy · PostJun 18, 2016#7292016-06-18T03:29+00:00

moorlander wrote:$147 million in incentives requestedl

Crazy.

kbshapiro · PostJun 18, 2016#7302016-06-18T11:03+00:00

The $147 million (19 percent of overall project budget) in public subsidies will not even cover the additional cost of building in St Louis (about 25 percent, some say 30 percent) in comparison to comparable markets. They should start calling public subsidies in St Louis "Union Subsidies".

framer · PostJun 18, 2016#7312016-06-18T16:33+00:00

Construction costs in STL are 25 - 30% higher than comparable markets? I find that hard to believe.

shadrach · PostJun 18, 2016#7322016-06-18T23:08+00:00

^Unions? I believe it.

dredger · PostJun 19, 2016#7332016-06-19T05:28+00:00

shadrach wrote:^Unions? I believe it.

tt

It really depends more on what is being built and how many comparable projects of that nature and scale from my experience in construction. Yes, I would say single residential home building in a strong union market is going to move expensive then say Texas or even exburbs.

But a 28 story high rise is being handled by contractor using trade people on the higher end of scaled wages whether they are union or not. The complexity, scale and liability risk is such that you don't a low wage workforce on these projects. In fact most markets for vertical construction of this nature is a union labor because contractors and the subs who build them want the trade crafts involved. So I doubt very very much that St Louis market is 25% above norm or comparable markets for this type of work.

In addition, materials involved is a huge cost factor involved. further eroding the argument that labor is driving 20-25% increase in overall cost for St Louis market. I would argue that China dumping steel in the world market, especially US, and the corresponding price drop might have more to do with some of these projects going forward.

kbshapiro · PostJun 19, 2016#7342016-06-19T11:55+00:00

framer wrote:Construction costs in STL are 25 - 30% higher than comparable markets? I find that hard to believe.

It's very true and has been a huge problem for St Louis for a long time. When a company, developer, or retailer can build a building for 20-30% less in Indy, Nashville, Cincy, or OK City -- believe me, that puts St Louis FAR down the list.

dredger · PostJun 19, 2016#7352016-06-19T16:56+00:00

kbshapiro wrote:
framer wrote:Construction costs in STL are 25 - 30% higher than comparable markets? I find that hard to believe.
It's very true and has been a huge problem for St Louis for a long time. When a company, developer, or retailer can build a building for 20-30% less in Indy, Nashville, Cincy, or OK City -- believe me, that puts St Louis FAR down the list.

I don't believe it as simplistic and really depends on what being constructed as well as you bring up another point. A lot of chain retailer might have a sole contractor building multiple cookie cutter places using the cheapest means to do it, and yes it will be cheaper in Indy to put up a Walgreens or a fast food joint. But then again, you bring box construction whose value over time is dubious. Heck, Target is closing a north county store less then 10 years old while Amazon is ramping up there metro east fulfillment centers

But I also beg the question, is it really a huge problem if it slows down the construction of another box store, another chain pharmacy or even another fast food or coffee chain at the corner of Big Bend and Manchester?

PostJun 19, 2016#7362016-06-19T17:02+00:00

Got off topic, but have no doubt Centene will build if they intend to bring over 1,000 employees from California. The labor savings in consolidating some of its workforce and having them employees in MO instead of CA will dwarf any increase in temporary labor of construction cost.

newstl2020 · PostJun 22, 2016#7372016-06-22T15:48+00:00

First 10M approved via BUILD Bonds

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 33cb1.html

Presbyterian · PostJun 23, 2016#7382016-06-23T00:26+00:00

Construction costs in St. Louis are 7% higher than the national average. Construction cost includes labor and materials but not site aquisition or preparation. Small towns and rural areas tend to be below the average. Major metropolitan areas tend to be higher than average. Indianapolis is also 7% above the national average and so is Kansas City. Detroit is 8% above. Chicago is 17% above the average. New York is 37% above the average.

Despite the urban legend, St. Louis is not an expensive construction cost city.

Data by city on page 7:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... u79a3vOd9A

framer · PostJun 23, 2016#7392016-06-23T03:36+00:00

^Yep. Looks like we're right in line with our peers.

moorlander · PostJun 27, 2016#7402016-06-27T20:11+00:00

Found this on the Clayton Website

Sale of City Owned Parking Lot

By

May 31, 2016

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

CLAYTON, MO – The City of Clayton announced today that the sale of a parking lot has demonstrated how Clayton is able to balance the needs of residents and development during this season of growth and investment in downtown Clayton.

As part of the $4 million sale of a city-owned parking lot, Centene Corporation has agreed to additional terms of sale that will help buffer the impact of the new campus and invest in the area surrounding The Crescent building and retail. The parking lot, which is adjacent to Kaldi’s Coffee at the corner of Carondelet Avenue and Hanley Road, is part of Centene’s planned utility relocation. Residents of The Crescent building and nearby retail owners had expressed concerns to City officials about parking, retail access, views, and other common growth issues.

As part of the terms of sale, Centene has agreed to:

• Pay for five new meter spaces in front of Crescent retail;
• Dedicate 20 public spaces in their future parking garage, which is to be relocated within 750 feet of current lot east of Hanley; and
• Design the new Centene building to be set back from the south property line to allow view from Crescent balconies to the west.

The sale kicks off an ongoing public development process for the Centene project. Starting June 6 with a conceptual review at the Clayton Plan Commission meeting, the public will have many public meetings and hearings over the next several months to learn more about the project and provide input.

“We understood that this was a critical piece of property for the upcoming Centene expansion plan, but wanted to respect the impact to adjacent property owners. Luckily we were able to get Centene what they needed and put in place some very important protections for residents for the long term. Any change in this environment can be challenging, but good residential and corporate citizens working together can build something very special,” said Clayton Mayor Harold Sanger. “This is an exciting time.”

http://www.claytonmo.gov/Government/New ... _p2958.htm

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 28, 2016#7412016-06-28T06:04+00:00

^ Don't think they released that very widely... And $4M for that parking lot? On one hand, the city has Centene over a barrel, on the other, Centene appears to be well on its way to getting what it wants.

framer · PostJun 29, 2016#7422016-06-29T00:58+00:00

I wonder if the new "south property line setback" is for the tower only, or does it include the garage as well? That would mean the garage would have considerably fewer spaces, unless they add floors to make up the difference. Of course, leaving the garage footprint as-is wouldn't help the Crescent's views very much.

Randy · PostJun 29, 2016#7432016-06-29T01:30+00:00

For those who did not understand my insistence that Centene plans to waste its proximity to Forsyth station, here is what they plan to put immediately adjacent (west) of the station:

https://nextstl.com/wp-content/uploads/Sub-3_5.png

Parking garage and "back of house" for the auditorium. In other words a driveway and a big, blank wall.

newstl2020 · PostJun 29, 2016#7442016-06-29T01:35+00:00

Well it is official, the more detailed renderings posted on Nextstl show at least one building setting a new height record for Clayton by a large margin. Potentially 2 buildings could come in "new tallest." All 3 major buildings are taller than the current Centene Plaza by a large margin.

The site plan leaves much to be desired, but this is exciting none-the-less.

wabash · PostJun 29, 2016#7452016-06-29T02:15+00:00

I always thought Carondelet Plaza (the street) provided a great opportunity for a pedestrian scaled, walkable corridor of fancy shops and restaurants (a concept that the Trianon proposal incorporated to a large extent). Anchored by the Ritz, Plaza, and Crescent it seemed poised to be a great pedestrian corridor from Forsyth Metrolink into Clayton. But between the ground floor apartments, tiny useless "Carondelet Plaza West" and "Carondelet Plaza East" which is primarily comprised of a 3-4 lane cul-de-sac drop-off area, 1 lane reserved for valet parking, and the street itself, any possibility of a quaint but contemporary pedestrian corridor is quashed.

I suppose the jobs and investment will be great for Clayton, but so much of this design seems like a missed opportunity.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 29, 2016#7462016-06-29T02:19+00:00

I can already feel the contortions being made to insist that this plans further the (rather smart) Clayton master plan.

Some of the images from here: https://nextstl.com/2016/06/detailed-im ... s-project/

urban_dilettante · PostJun 29, 2016#7472016-06-29T03:31+00:00

Wait, so tracts 2, 3, and 4 are ALL going to be parking garages!?!?!?

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 29, 2016#7482016-06-29T03:40+00:00

urban_dilettante wrote:Wait, so tracts 2, 3, and 4 are ALL going to be parking garages!?!?!?

Not to get all ride-your-bike, walkable-community, driverless-cars-are-coming on these guys, but it appears just more than half the square feet of this development will be dedicated to structured parking. That ratio isn't unheard of, but when a project is this big and is requesting $147M in public funds, and is located in an urban area, and adjacent to two rail stations... this really feels like a throwback, an antiquated development scheme. (Then there are the plazas, dead walls (just 1/2 of garage facade along Forsyth would have retail), etc. etc. etc. etc.)

Clayton should bring back Sasaki (city's master plan team) to manage the design and approval process.

framer · PostJun 29, 2016#7492016-06-29T17:05+00:00

Today's Post says the first tower will be 414 feet tall; Emporis lists The Plaza at about 408.

Seems to me that Clayton NIMBYs are the only thing standing in the way of Clayton taking over as the true business center of the region. Downtown will become mostly residential and entertainment.

newstl2020 · PostJun 30, 2016#7502016-06-30T17:13+00:00

^So just eyeballing, tract 3 will have a chance to come in around 500 feet.

Centene Corporation HQs

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