My guess - the demo is to let Clayron know they're proactive and shovel-ready. Yet, with the 'tomfoolery/NIMBYism' in Clayton, permitting and approval could take a while. The sod could be to protect the space so it doesn't become a muddy mess, erode, create mudslides and washout in the rain, or kick up dust if it gets too dry.
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There's a great fear of NIMBYism on this project. While it's huge and important to the city of Clayton, all it takes is a retired lawyer or two (and there more than a few near this project) to cause all kinds of problems. This will be pitched as being in sync with the city's master plan, but will need zoning changes, etc. to go forward. They're trying to be good neighbors throughout the process, and Clayton has significant regulations in place for construction sites - the temp wood fences put up around residential projects are 10x nicer than the fence in my yard.
^ Or it could simply be that Centene has the dollars to cover a mud pit in the interim....even if it is for the summer. Undoubtly as everyone is aware of, Centene has much more resources and revenues to work then say Bruce Mills trying to get Orion off the ground. Heck, I wonder if the dollars spent on sod would even cover a days worth of lawyers/financier expenses for its latest acquisition.
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I think the NYMBISM will be much more involved on future phases especially as it progresses towards the Forysth metrolink station. That will be a huge fight between density and neighbors, IMO. In the meantime, I think everyone and anyone who follows Centene include Clayton residents know that a second office tower is coming and was pretty much stated as such when the first one was built.
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I think the NYMBISM will be much more involved on future phases especially as it progresses towards the Forysth metrolink station. That will be a huge fight between density and neighbors, IMO. In the meantime, I think everyone and anyone who follows Centene include Clayton residents know that a second office tower is coming and was pretty much stated as such when the first one was built.
The latest edition of the Fortune 500 came out today, based on 2015 revenue.
Centene jumped from 186 last year to 124 this year.
Based on anticipated revenue in 2016, it should move into the 70s on next year's list.
Previous rankings include:
2014 - 251
2013 - 303
2012 - 453
2010 - 486
2009 - 609
2006 - 967
Greg
Centene jumped from 186 last year to 124 this year.
Based on anticipated revenue in 2016, it should move into the 70s on next year's list.
Previous rankings include:
2014 - 251
2013 - 303
2012 - 453
2010 - 486
2009 - 609
2006 - 967
Greg
The plans will be presented at 5:30 PM tonight (June 6) at Clayton's Plan Commission/Architectural Review Board Meeting.
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Apparently some Clayton NIMBY's are already mounting a charge against it... some Crescent residents are already worried about access.
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That's exactly the height and density I was imagining/hoping for!
Tract 4 is a nice surprise!
thanks for posting
Tract 4 is a nice surprise!
thanks for posting
Tract 1 looks okay. That is a huge parking podium though, bigger than I have ever seen. Not sure it will be very aesthetically pleasing.
Tract 2 looks awful (another huge garage fronting Forsyth!?).
Tract 3 looks like it could be decent, but that depends on if it relates to and encourages use of the Forsyth Metrolink station. It looks like the "Civic Auditorium" is blocking easy access to the rest of the development from the Metro station.
Tract 4 is also kind of meh. Why are they not building to the corner? Is something holy about those lame mounds of grass/fake hills they built?
IMO Clayton should approve Tract 1 and send Tract 2 and 3 back to the drawing board.
Tract 2 looks awful (another huge garage fronting Forsyth!?).
Tract 3 looks like it could be decent, but that depends on if it relates to and encourages use of the Forsyth Metrolink station. It looks like the "Civic Auditorium" is blocking easy access to the rest of the development from the Metro station.
Tract 4 is also kind of meh. Why are they not building to the corner? Is something holy about those lame mounds of grass/fake hills they built?
IMO Clayton should approve Tract 1 and send Tract 2 and 3 back to the drawing board.
An agglomeration of boring corporate monoliths that will age decently because of their construction quality, completely ignore the pedestrian scale and experience, and inspire no one. These will fit right in. More Clayton, coming soon!
Nice sized towers, but rather uninspired design. And the garage on Forsythe is horrible.
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The nextSTL item with images and the Clayco presentation: https://nextstl.com/2016/06/centene-unv ... s-project/
Aerial image: https://nextstl.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... 24x611.jpg
Aerial image: https://nextstl.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... 24x611.jpg
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Tract 1 tower looks like it doesn't front Forsyth so that it doesn't block views for the existing Centene Plaza tower. That at the expense of crowding the Cresent? If I owned one of those $1M+ condos, I would be upset too. Moving the tower to the corner of Forsyth and Hanley seems to improve sightlines and density on Forsyth and would not be as intrusive on the Cresent condos.
Also, why build the tract 2 garage when there's a completely underutilized behemoth garage directly across the street (former Famous Barr garage)! This plan should not be approved as proposed.
Also, why build the tract 2 garage when there's a completely underutilized behemoth garage directly across the street (former Famous Barr garage)! This plan should not be approved as proposed.
^ Good point on the WU/Famous Barr garage. I wonder if they considered using it. Would they need to rent from WU? Another garage fronting Forsyth will basically kill that street.
Obvious simple changes are:
1. Move Tract 1 tower to front Forsyth.
2. Kill the garage proposal in Tract 2 and wait for a better residential plan with subsurface garage or plan to utilize WU/Famous Barr garage.
3. Kill the garage fronting Forsyth station in Tract 3 and open up a pedestrian pathway to the Tract 3 tower from the Metrolink.
Obvious simple changes are:
1. Move Tract 1 tower to front Forsyth.
2. Kill the garage proposal in Tract 2 and wait for a better residential plan with subsurface garage or plan to utilize WU/Famous Barr garage.
3. Kill the garage fronting Forsyth station in Tract 3 and open up a pedestrian pathway to the Tract 3 tower from the Metrolink.
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Track 2 isn't just a garage. There would be street level retail and residential.
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^ Yes, but no matter what fancy architectural element you put on the facade, it's still on the unattractive side. The idea that each multi-story blank wall can just be screened is misplaced. A couple of those is OK, but block after block? The retail would need to be better incorporated than the existing Centene garage - which took years to lease up. Retail there is squat, signage is bad, etc.
The residential is shown as possible in the future and I'm not sure why residential wouldn't also face north. I'm not sure facing the Ritz/etc. is really all that much more appealing. My concern is with all the greenspace and plazas. There are so many in Clayton already and each of these tracts show its own plaza area. Even with the increase in jobs, these places are not going to be activated, just as all the existing plazas fail to make a useful urban space.
The residential is shown as possible in the future and I'm not sure why residential wouldn't also face north. I'm not sure facing the Ritz/etc. is really all that much more appealing. My concern is with all the greenspace and plazas. There are so many in Clayton already and each of these tracts show its own plaza area. Even with the increase in jobs, these places are not going to be activated, just as all the existing plazas fail to make a useful urban space.
While I do believe scrutiny has its value, if people get carried away with scrutinizing this project i.e. prolonged, protracted scrutiny, I could see Centene moving jobs to another region.
Michael F. Neidorff, CEO of Centene, doesn't play around. He's proved before that he can flip the switch and pull the trigger.
Barbara Abbett, a Crescent resident, "vowed to see that "this is not a city driven by a single corporation with a vision for growth."
Abbett needs to sit her ass down somewhere. She is going to be like that woman in the CWE who became a foe of almost every CWE tower proposal about 10-12 years ago.
Extortionists residing in small unit buildings - which are already surrounded by towers in a functional urban downtown - should not be allowed to stop (or risk) millions in economic development (and jobs) just because they can't have the amount of natural light they desire or because they can't see the *****' Arch.
Go to a park. Forest Park is right down the street.
Better yet, buy (or reserve) a unit in the new residential tower.
Michael F. Neidorff, CEO of Centene, doesn't play around. He's proved before that he can flip the switch and pull the trigger.
Barbara Abbett, a Crescent resident, "vowed to see that "this is not a city driven by a single corporation with a vision for growth."
Abbett needs to sit her ass down somewhere. She is going to be like that woman in the CWE who became a foe of almost every CWE tower proposal about 10-12 years ago.
Extortionists residing in small unit buildings - which are already surrounded by towers in a functional urban downtown - should not be allowed to stop (or risk) millions in economic development (and jobs) just because they can't have the amount of natural light they desire or because they can't see the *****' Arch.
Go to a park. Forest Park is right down the street.
Better yet, buy (or reserve) a unit in the new residential tower.
By the way, I like everything I see except the garage even though it looks better than the proposed garage for Grand Center. 
Too bad this isn't proposed for downtown St. Louis.
It's like Ballpark Village minus the stadium.
Last, I'm very confident this can be done after some tweaking and twerking to the plans because Clayco is involved.
Too bad this isn't proposed for downtown St. Louis.
It's like Ballpark Village minus the stadium.
Last, I'm very confident this can be done after some tweaking and twerking to the plans because Clayco is involved.
At the very end of the PD article, they confirm that yes, they plan a skybridge over Hanley linking their existing tower to the new one. I knew it would happen, but I'm disappointed nevertheless.
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You can see the sky bridge in this picture NextSTL posted yesterday
//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016060 ... 2374a3.jpg
//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016060 ... 2374a3.jpg
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^ In fact, the commission chair asked Bob Clark if they had planned to connect all their phases with covered or protected walkways. His response (to paraphrase) was, "We'd like to, but haven't found a way to do that."
I say let the Clayton NIMBYs and BANANAs have their hissy fits. Maybe downtown St. Louis can take a second swing at trying to get Centene. Or are we risking sending them to O'Fallon or out of the St. Louis metro altogether?
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What exactly is Barbara Abbett asking to be changed? I only heard worries about traffic and sunlight.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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^ Specifically, she asked that parking be built underground (that's not going to happen), and that nothing be built that would loom over the Crescent. I'm not sure what the threshold is for that. Nothing taller? Nothing within 100ft of the same height? Perhaps the thinking with underground parking is that the buildings would be shorter that way?
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^Ok. Easy enough. Put all of the parking garages right next to the Crescent then and build all the towers closer to the current building. (If only it was that simple)