Does anyone have anymore details of the presentation of the new plans? I read that its on the 19th of this month but i couldnt find anything else. Im guessing its not public.
ST. LOUIS • The scaled-back vision of Ballpark Village that the Cardinals will unveil on Wednesday includes 100,000 square feet of stores and restaurants and a new corporate headquarters for St. Louis-based Stifel Financial Corp., ready to open by the summer of 2013.
Glad that a more realistic phased approach is how this project is going to happen. Too much retail/entertainment would kill existing business and the real estate market isn't ready for a residential tower. Think of all the other projects adding units downtown happening at the moment.
However, still can't help but think that they could go at least twenty stories and have at least 150,000 to 175,000 sqf of speculative class A space, enough for Stiffel Nichols to expand into, the 50,000 sqf, as well as snag another business as Wabash and Quincunx suggest. My thoughts are based on a couple items which seem logical to me from a take of the market and competition. Maybe I'm way off base so to speak with my limited knowledge.
1) First, BPV, In my opinion is not competitive with Centene's second tower in providing enough new Class A office space at 50,000 sqf. Instead you become another developer competing on renderings instead of availibility. St. Louis has its fair share of developers chasing a small number of clients
2) Second, Realisitically their is no serious proposal on the table to build Class A office space downtown in the immediate future. Why sell yourself short now when in three years you will have the new Mississippi River Bridge open and maybe a new 22nd interchange offering comparable development opportunities - downtown with good freeway access?
2) Third, you must be willing to position yourself on the possibility of air china hub.
3) Fourth, I think you see IL businesses have a legitimate concern on taxes and what path to go forward on. St Louis might get legitimate consideration.
^I wonder if what is being built is exactly what could be financed. I'm not sure any bank in America is interested in much speculative and costly commercial space.
I'd like to think though that talk among the various players bringing BPV to reality is to quickly green light an additional tower as soon as a viable tenant is found. Maybe the gun is loaded on BPV expansion and all that it needs is the trigger squeezed by a new tenant?
I'm still thinking that Google should be "helped" here to establish their new internet/fiber optic thing (shows you how much I know about it, ha). How about a customized, high tech tower next to iconic Busch Stadium and cementing downtown's tech status?
^Doesn't the blue print for downtown calls for an additional 6K or 8K residents in the next decade? They're gonna have to live somewhere, so why not?
I'm just hoping (if they get built) they're not all priced at $350K and up. I'd like to be able to buy something across the street from the stadium and retire in it. Then have it paid off by the time I need to find somewhere to play "walker tag" and "I remember when...."
Still undecided if BPV condo's would help the situation with the remaining/undeveloped Cupples warehouses or not. On one hand, new construction might bring in more people to look in the immediate area and discover the warehouse. Or, the opposite, any possible client go to BPV and the remaining warehouses become more and more candidates for demolition.
RobbyD wrote:^Doesn't the blue print for downtown calls for an additional 6K or 8K residents in the next decade? They're gonna have to live somewhere, so why not?
I'm just hoping (if they get built) they're not all priced at $350K and up. I'd like to be able to buy something across the street from the stadium and retire in it. Then have it paid off by the time I need to find somewhere to play "walker tag" and "I remember when...."
I agree, but the number seems low to me, most likely (at least this is my guess) because they will be decent sized and high priced.
quincunx wrote:Think we could lure a corp HQ from Illinois for BPV given they are freaking out about the tax increase there? ADM? CME?
Just an FYI ADM bought new office space in Downtown Decatur, IL back in December. They are set for a while...see my post in the Illinois Section for more details.
But even this smaller project isn't certain. The lead tenant - widely believed to be Stifel - has not yet fully committed, DeWitt said. And the sale of bonds this summer - expected to be $35 million but potentially as much as $45 million - is still dependent on "market conditions."
While they would restore the street grid north of Busch into eight square blocks, only two of the blocks would be developed in the project's $146 million first phase. The other six would become surface parking lots until demand emerged for building on them, at which point a combination of office buildings, retail space, garages, condominiums and possibly a hotel are planned.
Were there no plans provided?
What street grid gets restored? The street grid is fairly locked on all four sides by a Stadium, two parking garages and the Ballpark Hilton complex.
They must mean that they are making their own street grid, especially to come up with 8 blocks.
I personally am just ready for SOMETHING to be built. I'm holding out hope that if one building gets constructed (Stifel Nicolaus' tower), maybe the floodgates will open and more tenants will show interest.
ST. LOUIS - The new plan for Ballpark Village received its first blessing from a public agency Wednesday morning.
A city agency gave its OK to up to $47 million in tax revenue bonds to help build a first phase of the long-awaited project, which would include a a retail complex and 13-story office building likely to house financial services firm Stifel Financial Corp. across from Busch Stadium.
Cardinals President Bill DeWitt III and Chase Martin, of the team's development partner Cordish Co., laid out their plans for the site, which they say would be the "premier" office development in the region, and the first new office tower built downtown in a quarter century.
"This will be a marquee development that will be seen all over the world every time the Cardinals play," said Martin. "It's a very attractive site."
But their vision is significantly smaller than earlier versions that have been pitched in the six years the Cardinals have been trying to build Ballpark Village.
I say make the Cards pay the fines they are supposed to and then consider TIF funding. Even then, TIFs should not be such a large percentage of the project cost.
As for the surface parking lots!?!?!?!? GREAT
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Moderator edit: Shortened the P-D quote for fair use. Please don't quote full articles.
There are a couple positives to take out of this if it becomes a reality.
- A street grid is being put into place and money is being used to provide utilities for the additional blocks created. This makes it much easier and attractive for building on these additional blocks. Perhaps the Cardinals would be willing to sell these plots to other developers and then we might see a more organic, diverse end product that gets built in a quicker timeframe.
- No mention of the "urban plaza". Hopefully this gets scrapped since we have an urban plaza a block away.
metzgda wrote:There are a couple positives to take out of this if it becomes a reality.
- A street grid is being put into place and money is being used to provide utilities for the additional blocks created. This makes it much easier and attractive for building on these additional blocks. Perhaps the Cardinals would be willing to sell these plots to other developers and then we might see a more organic, diverse end product that gets built in a quicker timeframe.
- No mention of the "urban plaza". Hopefully this gets scrapped since we have an urban plaza a block away.
I am about the making the urban fabric more traditional and allowing subsequent development, but at what cost?
No, please no surface parking. I don't care if Dewitt lake forms again, it's much better than a surface lot. Hopefully they stick to their word building the utilities for the remainder. I can honestly see this phase getting developed and the surface lot being present 10 years from now.
downtown2007 wrote:No, please no surface parking. I don't care if Dewitt lake forms again, it's much better than a surface lot. Hopefully they stick to their word building the utilities for the remainder. I can honestly see this phase getting developed and the surface lot being present 10 years from now.
We've just go to hope that the next few phases happen quickly.