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PostDec 03, 2010#4551

I will surely believe this more when I see the elected officials with shovels in their hands for the groundbreaking ceremony. Otherwise, it's a different chapter of the same book.

Unless we can get more office jobs downtown instead of musical chairs, I'm afraid that this proposed retail will only cannibalize what is here now. Look no further than the Culinaria.
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PostDec 03, 2010#4552

What a joke. I'll defer to our state slogan-- "Show Me."

Why do they even bother announcing this? Their credibility is completely shot. Until the cranes show up, they have a lot of nerve to even mention a word.

Let me guess who the tenants are-- Hooters and Ruby Tuesday.
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PostDec 03, 2010#4553

I actually did Laugh Out Loud when I read this contradiction:

"Ballpark Village developers say financing, tenants in place"

then

"He said those tenants were not willing to be named publicly until the developers have got all the financing pieces in place."


So is the financing in place or not? LOL
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547

PostDec 03, 2010#4554

The real problem here is the lack of residential units. The city wants to put in place a TIF to finance something that does not continue to add to the liveliness of downtown outside of office hours, nor does it create a cyclical, self-sustaining downtown economy. Now those tenents better be new to the metro area, otherwise this is complete waste of funds.

P.S. I really want the development of BPV, but not if it is poorly planned, designed, financed and executed.
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PostDec 03, 2010#4555

I think the chief issue here is that the Cardinals front office runs a baseball team first and foremost...They get the benefit of the doubt for me...Tho they have clearly dropped the ball on this thing...especially with how personal so many take the Cards and the yo-yo game theyve been playing of its on, its off...teasing us all with a huge investment in downtown...BUT, I don't get the feeling that the Cards are just settling for something here and just trying to get anything up...that lot next to Busch Stadium is not going to sit vacant for the next 20 years, no way...my MLB 2010 The Show video game for my PSP Go proves it...they have an attractive building complex in left field! lol

Bottom line is the Cards front office is obviously outta their comfortable operating zone...and I'm thinking the Clayton mafia couldn't bear to see Centene go...

Here's hoping for residential at some point in teh future...My plan was to be able to buy one in 10 to 15 years...lol...seriously...then work another 10, then retire in my condo steps from at least 81 games a year in retirement...
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PostDec 03, 2010#4556

I don't think residential is an issue with BPV nor should it be for phase I. First, The reality is that the market is just about to get more units in Park Pacific and The Laural project, along with another hotel, and the strong possibility of Leather Trade Lofts going forward. Big plus for downtown. Second, I would much rather see someone come to the rescue of the remaining Cupple warehouses first and a new residential tower on Washington Ave.

What I'm dumbfounded about, the parties to be can't muster or finance a taller office tower or unwilling to speculate on additional 100,000 to 150,000 sf of class A office space! It would be nice to see something that is plus twenty stories as an anchor. Especially if you got a realistic shot on making the region an air cargo hub/gateway to the East!!

In other words, glad if it is going to be Stifel Nichols new HQ but dissappointed that they can't make something more substantial happen out of the gate in terms of Class A office space.
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PostDec 03, 2010#4557

zun1026 wrote:Now those tenents better be new to the metro area, otherwise this is complete waste of funds.quote]
Exactly
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PostDec 03, 2010#4558

I'm ok with the small development because it's my understanding this will only use about 1/3 of the land correct? So, certainly if this opens with success and it's determined there is further office/residential demand, then we may see larger buildings built out. I'd rather them do this in small stages than try and finance one huge project.
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PostDec 03, 2010#4559

Ballpark Village hasn't been the only stalled development of its kind. The Xanadu Meadowlands -- think Ballpark Village on steroids or in Qatar or Abu Dhabai -- was supposed to open up in 2007 as the nation's largest retail complex but it is woefully behind. Here is a story from the summer about how that crazy old Governor Christie wants to spend tons of public $$ to rescue it. Very interesting in light of his decision to pull out of the ARC rail obligations. What a moron.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/22/nyreg ... .html?_r=1
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PostDec 03, 2010#4560

Similar story up on STL biz journal.

I agree with Dredger that, at this point, it's just more feasible to wait on residential. That's not to say I doubt demand would be there or that I prefer them waiting, but I'm ok with it not being in this phase with cautious optimism that DeWitt and gang wise up for the later phase(s). In the mean time, hopefully the remaining Cupples buildings can be snatched up and take on a bit of the demand along with Pointe 400... and then there's always the possibility of something happening on the smaller (1/3ish) lot to the SE.

Also in agreement that we should be seeing more than 14 stories here.
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PostDec 03, 2010#4561

There is supposed to be a rendering floating around for the tower, but I just watched all 3 news outlets and I am not sure if the rendering they showed was the new one or not. It was brief, but I think I noticed a parking garage on Broadway! I sure hope I am wrong... :evil:



EDIT: I looked around and found this clip: http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/play ... l&wpid=311

^which is the same that news 4 showed tonight. If you watch the clip from 2008, it is saying about the same this as was said today!!! LOL, I hope they get it right this time! :twisted:
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PostDec 03, 2010#4562

I find it ironic that this came out the same week that the Post Dispatch called out the City for not holding the Cardinals accountable for various requirements that they have agreed upon. I feel like Dewitt and Co decided to go public in order to get everyone off their backs for a while. I will believe it when I see it.

If the developments happen to be true its not overly exciting. A 14 story office building is puny which wouldnt be noticible from the East Riverfront. I was hoping for 25. In addition, the office space musical chairs creates even less excitment. If downtown were to get a new firm located in BPV then it would be much more exciting.

Overall we get a 14 story office tower and more retail that we will struggle to sustain. I am not opposed that everything is being built in phases instead of all at once but it would be nice to see a comprehensive plan for the 2nd and 3rd phases.
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PostDec 04, 2010#4563

I've always wondered why, with all the anger surrounding the BPV debacle, there has never been a boycott of Cardinals games. If people are unhappy with the organization's practices, why support it?
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PostDec 04, 2010#4564

^ Good point. I have always talked about doing that but have never been able to. Maybe this season is the season I will be able to do so.
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PostDec 04, 2010#4565

^Because there wouldn't be nearly enough support to make a boycott even noticeable. Like was said earlier in the thread, the Cardinals main business is baseball. And to most people in the region, the product they put on the field south of Clark Street is more important than the product they put on the field on the north of Clark Street.

Personally, I'd much rather have a private developer or someone else besides the Cardinals responsible for BPV precisely of that reason. But, at the same time, I love baseball and I love the Cardinals, so I'm going to continue to support them.

And with that line of thinking, it becomes very difficult to hold the Cardinals, such a beloved aspect of our community, accountable.
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PostDec 04, 2010#4566

The Biz Journal states, "Housing is gone, at least for the first phase, which includes two of the seven blocks."

I think it's worth noting that the development will actually be comprised of only 6 city blocks. They are probably double counting what would be the northwestern block, since 7th St. cuts across it at a diagonal. So the proposed Phase 1 would actually consist of about 1/3 of the entire site, although it will only account for about 1/5 of the total projected cost.
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PostDec 04, 2010#4567

It'll just be nice to see something go up there. I believe that phase 1 will lead to phases 2, 3, etc. happening more quickly. Once companies see something actually happening, they'll be more likely to jump in and make commitments. Everyone wants their name attached to the St. Louis Cardinals.

By the way, the Cards just signed Lance Berkman!
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PostDec 04, 2010#4568

While I like to believe that they are actually getting ready to begin in earnest on this thing, I cannot help but think that if they were really shovel ready (minus state sign-offs) they would be able to provide a new rendering of what they are actually going to produce at the site. I don't believe this plan is consistent with anything they had previously set forth, so getting an updated view would be nice. I guess we will get this in January at the next meeting?

Also, does it specify which two blocks this will be? I sure hope it is the two West-most blocks of the property, as a 14 story tower on the southeast block of this lot would be insanely moronic and close to downright criminal.

We need WAY more details. Do we even know what the street grids are going to look like? Are there even going to be streets? If they are planning on doing residential and office, not having through-streets would be insanely stupid.
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PostDec 05, 2010#4569

newstl2020 wrote:Also, does it specify which two blocks this will be? I sure hope it is the two West-most blocks of the property, as a 14 story tower on the southeast block of this lot would be insanely moronic and close to downright criminal.
I'm afraid your worst fears may in fact come true. The STL Business Journal reports: "The first phase of the project, slated for two blocks that face the ballpark at a cost of $150 million, will have a new office tower and retail space."

I'm prone to think this means the two south-south eastern blocks (ie the blocks you - and many of us - would like to see saved for larger buildings) but it could mean the south-southwestern blocks.

While it might be nearsighted of them not to save the centerfield/marquee blocks for bigger buildings, I think this location for Phase 1 will help ensure its success, and establish momentum for the development as a whole.
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PostDec 05, 2010#4570

I'm fine with them using any of the blocks that face the stadium. I'd like for the taller buildings to be on the Northeast end of the property. That way, they mix in with the tall buildings seen throughout the rest of downtown's core.
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PostDec 05, 2010#4571

the rendering I saw on one of the newsies were for the western blocks, not the SE one.

update: here is the preliminaty site plan with the 200 & 300 blocks being the Phase One: http://images.bimedia.net/images/Ballpa ... e+Plan.JPG
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PostDec 05, 2010#4572

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PostDec 05, 2010#4573

Not as bad as I initially feared. Still, my main issue is that anything under 30 stories for the area is crazy. These properties are going to be the most desired in the metro for decades to come. The short sighted nature of this entire development is really mind boggling to me. What I wouldn't give to be have someone with the old school determination to risk a little to build an iconic structure fitting of the location. Anyone know any billionaires? If only Jack Taylor cared at all about stl.
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PostDec 05, 2010#4574

newstl2020 wrote: Anyone know any billionaires? If only Jack Taylor cared at all about stl.
Say what now?
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PostDec 05, 2010#4575

Yeah I have absolutely no personal knowledge or reason for saying that...other than that it would be nice if Enterprise built an 80 story tower downtown instead of their current campus. Anyone with some extra coin would work, really.

(I am thinking ESB or Rockefeller in NY as examples. The days when wealthy citizens used their fortunes to better their urban centers) not really applicable anymore I know, but it would still be extremely cool if someone went back to that.

Anyway...bpv...
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