Agree that developers are securing financing now. But, look at where it is coming from, mostly HUD, Unions and new New Market tax credits. I believe they are providing most of money for Park Pacific, St. Louis Cenre, and The Laural. Who will foot the bill the if things fail, tax dollars and union pension funds. The reality is that BPV or any new Class A office tower downtown is going to require a major committment from private resources/investors. When we get that it will be a big boost for the region. That is one of the reasons why I'm so adament about not giving up on BPV. Alex asks who cares. I think we should all care whether or not private investment and corporate HQ's sees a future in Downtown.
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Ballpark Village 2004-present:
Shovels could be moving dirt at Ballpark Village by this time next year.
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I've long thought that these horrible economic times would last through 2010. Noting that these times are based on the collapse of the credit & debt markets, I felt that new major construction projects, especially speculative ones, would be few and far between in realization. With the mess that is now the European Common Market, seeing a resurgence in these markets by the end of the year is pragmatically optomistic when seeing new mixed use construction projects like this.
However, these years of delays on BPV cannot be levied on the economy alone. The Bottle District not being developed, yes, but not the most prized real estate in Downtown.
Now, I recognize that DeWitt and Cordish are only trying to operate prudently and judiciously in how they plan to build, but these years upon years of delays are ridiculous. You want to play developer, you better be ready to follow through. Now offering a scaled-back version of BPV, they may be acting "based upon current market conditions", but their losses in personal goodwill and credibility are all but tapped.
Committing now on only one small tower? That could've still been speculatively built recently as they await full completion. How many law firms would've killed to have the one tower in left field with a corporate brand on it? Enough to bring them in from New York, let alone Clayton. DeWitt & Cordish really should look to dump part of the development to another group who can actually do something if they're still unable.
Until this is completed, I hope the City fines them fully in accordance to the agreements made with the City, County, and State for financing. After all, DeWitt & Cordish assumed the risks associated when writing those contracts. Could make for some great political grandstanding, too.
After all, this was supposed to be fully completed, as per the renderings, by the All Star Game last year. Jackasses.
However, these years of delays on BPV cannot be levied on the economy alone. The Bottle District not being developed, yes, but not the most prized real estate in Downtown.
Now, I recognize that DeWitt and Cordish are only trying to operate prudently and judiciously in how they plan to build, but these years upon years of delays are ridiculous. You want to play developer, you better be ready to follow through. Now offering a scaled-back version of BPV, they may be acting "based upon current market conditions", but their losses in personal goodwill and credibility are all but tapped.
Committing now on only one small tower? That could've still been speculatively built recently as they await full completion. How many law firms would've killed to have the one tower in left field with a corporate brand on it? Enough to bring them in from New York, let alone Clayton. DeWitt & Cordish really should look to dump part of the development to another group who can actually do something if they're still unable.
Until this is completed, I hope the City fines them fully in accordance to the agreements made with the City, County, and State for financing. After all, DeWitt & Cordish assumed the risks associated when writing those contracts. Could make for some great political grandstanding, too.
After all, this was supposed to be fully completed, as per the renderings, by the All Star Game last year. Jackasses.
I actually think this is decent news for the development given the last 5 years of nothing. For the first time, the Cardinals are looking at developing this land in stages instead of doing a massive development all at once. Market conditions right now warrent a new Class-A office tower of this size - let's get it built. Leave the remaining land vacant and available for future development when the market picks up. Certainly demand for Class-A space could go up again and further demand for residential space should increase once the current mess sorts itself out.
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Wow. As usual, you've stated the case perfectly in my opinion. The Cardinals owners may have pulled the wool over a lot of eyes in this town using the economy as an excuse for the delays, but that alone is not the reason that nothing has happened at the Ballpark Village site since Busch Stadium II was leveled.Gone Corporate wrote:I've long thought that these horrible economic times would last through 2010. Noting that these times are based on the collapse of the credit & debt markets, I felt that new major construction projects, especially speculative ones, would be few and far between in realization. With the mess that is now the European Common Market, seeing a resurgence in these markets by the end of the year is pragmatically optomistic when seeing new mixed use construction projects like this.
However, these years of delays on BPV cannot be levied on the economy alone. The Bottle District not being developed, yes, but not the most prized real estate in Downtown.
Now, I recognize that DeWitt and Cordish are only trying to operate prudently and judiciously in how they plan to build, but these years upon years of delays are ridiculous. You want to play developer, you better be ready to follow through. Now offering a scaled-back version of BPV, they may be acting "based upon current market conditions", but their losses in personal goodwill and credibility are all but tapped.
Committing now on only one small tower? That could've still been speculatively built recently as they await full completion. How many law firms would've killed to have the one tower in left field with a corporate brand on it? Enough to bring them in from New York, let alone Clayton. DeWitt & Cordish really should look to dump part of the development to another group who can actually do something if they're still unable.
Until this is completed, I hope the City fines them fully in accordance to the agreements made with the City, County, and State for financing. After all, DeWitt & Cordish assumed the risks associated when writing those contracts. Could make for some great political grandstanding, too.
After all, this was supposed to be fully completed, as per the renderings, by the All Star Game last year. Jackasses.
When I get the time, I may write to the mayor and my alderman. I want to know if the penalties for delays in construction are still in place, and if so, when the city can begin enforcing those penalties. The city has played hardball with the Cardinals owners before to reduce the public burden for stadium financing, and then a second time by not guaranteeing bonds for Ballpark Village construction, so now it is time for one more round.
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Frankly, I'm embarrassed for Dewitt and Cordish.
From the Article
DeWitt said he’d like to include a condo tower in the project in a later phase, depending on whether the residential real estate market improves. “There’s definitely a strategic plan for a residential tower in the village, just not in phase one.”
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... rround=lfn
From the Article
DeWitt said he’d like to include a condo tower in the project in a later phase, depending on whether the residential real estate market improves. “There’s definitely a strategic plan for a residential tower in the village, just not in phase one.”
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... rround=lfn
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Bill McClellan in the Post Dispatch has been saying it is a good thing that Ballpark Village did not succeed and bring in a lot of subsidized chain restaurants to downtown, like the ones in the KC Power and Light district, and run the long time downtown restaurants out of business. Does anyone know if this kind of thing is happening in KC?
I think it would be great if the Cardinals would set up a deal with the downtown restaurants and host a daily "Taste of St. Louis" style food fair every day/night the Cards are in town along Clark Street. I would definitely eat there before the game and then go in to watch baseball. Or, they could do like Boston and move the Northern perimeter of the ticket fence just across Clark street temporarily on game days, which would put the food fair inside the perimeter. Then you could buy food there all during the game.
They may be concerned that it would take sales away from the places inside the stadium, but I'm sure something could be worked out for a win-win where everyone makes money, and the fans get better food from the great downtown restaurants. It would make for a better experience all the way around.
They could do it for 3 games on a trial basis and see how it goes.
I think it would be great if the Cardinals would set up a deal with the downtown restaurants and host a daily "Taste of St. Louis" style food fair every day/night the Cards are in town along Clark Street. I would definitely eat there before the game and then go in to watch baseball. Or, they could do like Boston and move the Northern perimeter of the ticket fence just across Clark street temporarily on game days, which would put the food fair inside the perimeter. Then you could buy food there all during the game.
They may be concerned that it would take sales away from the places inside the stadium, but I'm sure something could be worked out for a win-win where everyone makes money, and the fans get better food from the great downtown restaurants. It would make for a better experience all the way around.
They could do it for 3 games on a trial basis and see how it goes.
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^I don't think that would be a good move for downtown restaurants. Leave a little early or stay late and actually patronize downtown establishments.
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Why not?Moorlander wrote:^I don't think that would be a good move for downtown restaurants.
I do patronize downtown restaurants before games. But it is hard for most people to get downtown after work, and then trapse across downtown to the restaurants and back to the game. Most people just eat at the Ballpark instead. Especially if they have never sampled downtown restaurants. So, I think they would eat at places along Clark Street if they were there.
And it might be a foot in the door to Ballpark Village if it ever gets built and could avoid Bill McClellan's concern that a bunch of new chain restaurants there will kill downtown restaurants.
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^More people should live downtown. Then they would spend less time getting downtown and have more time to "trapse."
On a real note, Gary, it isn't a horrible idea. It would just be nice if the city could get away from the idea of catering to those who want to come and leave quickly, and be itself and say F*** Y** to those that can't stand the thought of being in the city longer than it takes to park and see a baseball game.
We are getting close, and i cannot wait.
On a real note, Gary, it isn't a horrible idea. It would just be nice if the city could get away from the idea of catering to those who want to come and leave quickly, and be itself and say F*** Y** to those that can't stand the thought of being in the city longer than it takes to park and see a baseball game.
We are getting close, and i cannot wait.
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It would just be nice if when something is built along Clark that local restaurants are included. If a single management group fills the whole area then we'll welcome big chains.
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Good thought, but I don't think the ball club can survive with just downtown residents going to ballgames -- people will come from other places. I just like what they do in Boston, where you can buy food and beer from local establishments out on the street because they worked out some kind of a deal with the ballclub to put the whole street inside the ticket perimeter. Its not chains like Fuddruckers, or whatever we will end up with in Ballpark Village -- its local food.newstl2020 wrote:^More people should live downtown. Then they would spend less time getting downtown and have more time to "trapse."
On a real note, Gary, it isn't a horrible idea. It would just be nice if the city could get away from the idea of catering to those who want to come and leave quickly, and be itself and say F*** Y** to those that can't stand the thought of being in the city longer than it takes to park and see a baseball game.
We are getting close, and i cannot wait.
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Maybe this has been mentioned before, but why is it that Louisville gets a giant bat and a museum,
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while Rawlings in St. Louis keeps itself far from the second greatest baseball team the world has ever known? (by world series victories...) I believe they're headquartered out by Maryville University.
Rawlings should be a major partner in the ballpark village and have a giant baseball glove in the works. They're the obvious corporate partner. No coal company or law firm makes more sense than Rawlings. Seriously note how their logo changed over time to drop St. Louis.
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while Rawlings in St. Louis keeps itself far from the second greatest baseball team the world has ever known? (by world series victories...) I believe they're headquartered out by Maryville University.
Rawlings should be a major partner in the ballpark village and have a giant baseball glove in the works. They're the obvious corporate partner. No coal company or law firm makes more sense than Rawlings. Seriously note how their logo changed over time to drop St. Louis.
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I blogged about it back in 2008: http://downtownstlbiz.blogspot.com/2008 ... unity.htmlDaronDierkes wrote:Maybe this has been mentioned before, but why is it that Louisville gets a giant bat and a museum,
while Rawlings in St. Louis keeps itself far from the second greatest baseball team the world has ever known? (by world series victories...) I believe they're headquartered out by Maryville University.
Rawlings should be a major partner in the ballpark village and have a giant baseball glove in the works. They're the obvious corporate partner. No coal company or law firm makes more sense than Rawlings. Seriously note how their logo changed over time to drop St. Louis.
Rawlings has puzzled me for years. Hate to say, but the inability to see what the potential and stay within one's confines is a hallmark of local corporations.
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Rawlings hasn't been a local corporation for 40+ years.shadrach wrote:Rawlings has puzzled me for years. Hate to say, but the inability to see what the potential and stay within one's confines is a hallmark of local corporations.
Rawlings was an independent publicly traded company, headquartered in Fenton, MO in 1994. It was bought by K2, the ski manufacturer in 2003, and the Jarden Group (headquartered in Rye, NY) bought K2 in 2007.
The Rawlings subsidiary of Jarden is now headquartered near the Maryville U. campus.
This is such a good idea! Rawlings and BPV are a perfect match. It seems like a complete no-brainer. They could have a Gold Glove Museum to compliment the Cards Museum with the offices overlooking Busch. St. louis would be a baseball destination second only to Cooperstown (not that it isn't already). I can't believe they haven't explored the idea. The Cards/developers should be pursuing these kinds of relationships with local companies.
The Rawlings subsidiary of Jarden is now headquartered near the Maryville U. campus.
This is such a good idea! Rawlings and BPV are a perfect match. It seems like a complete no-brainer. They could have a Gold Glove Museum to compliment the Cards Museum with the offices overlooking Busch. St. louis would be a baseball destination second only to Cooperstown (not that it isn't already). I can't believe they haven't explored the idea. The Cards/developers should be pursuing these kinds of relationships with local companies.
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^ Right - it doesn't matter if Rawlings in a subsidiary, owned by a Sheik or whatever - the Rawlings brand headquarters is in St. Louis and the company has a long history here. It would makes sense to have a museum/large presence near the ballpark.
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You'd have to ask the people in New York.Moorlander wrote:^Weird, why do they have their HQ here then?
I had forgotten about that. They had been passed around a few times prior to 1994, I think originally being bought in the 60's by some sort of sprinkler(?) company.Wabash wrote:Rawlings was an independent publicly traded company, headquartered in Fenton, MO in 1994. It was bought by K2, the ski manufacturer in 2003, and the Jarden Group (headquartered in Rye, NY) bought K2 in 2007.
maybe if we called it rawlings village then they would be up for building a museum, giant glove, and HQ? I like the sound of Rawlings Village anyways.
actually they could even have a small scale factory where people can watch professional gloves and baseballs be made. As a baseball fan I believe if you combine this with a gold glove museum that honors the greatest defensive players of all time, that it would become a second place for all baseball fans to make a pilgrimage to.
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The Cards/developers should be pursuing these kinds of relationships with local companies.
I think they're a little busy with their 'grassroots' effort to get a medal of freedom for Stan the Man.
Have any of you been to the Louisville Slugger Museum? It's right on main street a bit of a walk from the Bats stadium.
The cardinals evicted the bowling hall of fame. Some replacement for deeds done would be nice. I don't think its good for Rawlings to be too associated with the Cardinals since they sell their goods to a lot of different teams, but if they were both part of a larger museum it'd be fair. If a St. Louis Baseball Museum had the Cardinals and the Golden Glove as two anchoring exhibits, it'd be quite sensible. A St. Louis Browns exhibit would be fantastic (I always liked their name and logo better anyway). A baeball factory with glass walls would be cool. Rawlings moving their corporate office would be cool too. The history museum has lots of baseball stuff, I believe. They've done a few special exhibitions at least.
Maybe the St. Louis Perfectos would be a good group to mobilize for the cause. I don't know about what kind of budget they're working with but the Frontier League is based in Sauget. They're a pretty big organization separate from MLB. If they and the Perfectos teamed up and supported a St. Louis Baseball Museum and mobilized Cardinal Nation, then maybe the Cardinals and Rawlings could be brought to the table after the deluge of letters.
There are some Cardinals bloggers and podcasters out there that would be helpful to get on board as well. I believe 2Birds1Bat has a pretty big following. They'd probably be agreeable to spreading the idea.
Glovesmith is a handcrafted baseball glove made in Fenton, but more importantly, they also make the top of the line Pro Model gloves for Easton (shhh!) The guy who started Glovesmith left Rawlings because he didn't like how their products were no longer made here in the U.S. Maybe they could be included if anything ever materializes in BPV.