Moorlander wrote:If I could take the reigns on this thing for a day, my first move would be getting the ball rolling on a sales center.
A sales center for what, exactly?
This isn't residential. It would be a waste of time.
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A sales center for what, exactly?
This isn't residential. It would be a waste of time.
I don't feel for KC. They had piss-poor managers. St. Louis acted responsibly.Dredger wrote:Another Cordish story out of the Kansas City Star. I feel for KC, betting on +500,000 square feet of retail space for 77% of sales tax revenue to back bonds won't be good for the foreseeable future.
http://www.kansascity.com/637/story/1050137.html
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Let Cordish build their office tower and then tell them to hit the road.
A commenter from that article of KC:
"The P&LD looks like it's pretty much thrown together and doesn't fit in with the surrounding neighborhood that it was forced into, which happens to be asleep. You can't have government force stuff like this upon the public. Things that are good. that we enjoy - develop organically. Not by the edict of a City government and slick developers.
It's doomed to fail and be propped up by the unwitting public until it looks like Bannister Mall. Kansas City is NOT a destination city like so many others: Denver, SF, NYC, Chicago, et al. Local citizens are the ones that will have to frequent - NOT vacationers. Therefore, the demand to have places like this has to spring forth naturally from local entrepreneurs !
"
Not sure if that was from someone on this forum
"The P&LD looks like it's pretty much thrown together and doesn't fit in with the surrounding neighborhood that it was forced into, which happens to be asleep. You can't have government force stuff like this upon the public. Things that are good. that we enjoy - develop organically. Not by the edict of a City government and slick developers.
It's doomed to fail and be propped up by the unwitting public until it looks like Bannister Mall. Kansas City is NOT a destination city like so many others: Denver, SF, NYC, Chicago, et al. Local citizens are the ones that will have to frequent - NOT vacationers. Therefore, the demand to have places like this has to spring forth naturally from local entrepreneurs !
"
Not sure if that was from someone on this forum
zink wrote:A commenter from that article of KC:
"The P&LD looks like it's pretty much thrown together and doesn't fit in with the surrounding neighborhood that it was forced into, which happens to be asleep. You can't have government force stuff like this upon the public. Things that are good. that we enjoy - develop organically. Not by the edict of a City government and slick developers.
It's doomed to fail and be propped up by the unwitting public until it looks like Bannister Mall. Kansas City is NOT a destination city like so many others: Denver, SF, NYC, Chicago, et al. Local citizens are the ones that will have to frequent - NOT vacationers. Therefore, the demand to have places like this has to spring forth naturally from local entrepreneurs !
"
Not sure if that was from someone on this forum
An NBA or NHL team moving into the Sprint Center could help the P&LD somewhat
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Bill DimWitt III, president of the St. Louis Cardinals, said today he hopes the bonds could be sold soon after trained monkeys draw Ballpark Village development plans on toilet paper. DimWitt said he is “cautiously optimistic” that approval will be done when cows start flying over the Gateway Arch.
Fixed.
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The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Moorlander wrote:If I could take the reigns on this thing for a day, my first move would be getting the ball rolling on a sales center.
A sales center for what, exactly?
This isn't residential. It would be a waste of time.
QFT. They already have two huge office tenants to take up the majority of the office space and have said that they pre-leased 80% or so of the retail.
The only thing left to do is close on financing.
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My wife and I spent a night at the Hilton at the Ballpark for Valentine's day. We had a great view of the ballpark, the rooms are newly renovated, and it was a great experience. And it was relatively reasonable that time of year.
Another couple in the elevator asked what these rooms normally go for during the baseball season. They guessed $250 or more. So when I got home I got on the Hilton site and put in a date during the baseball season. During the summer, the rooms with a stadium or Arch view go for about $190.
Hilton is cleaning up on the view that Ballpark Village could have capitalized on. If they make Ballpark Village short, Hilton will continue to score big.
Another couple in the elevator asked what these rooms normally go for during the baseball season. They guessed $250 or more. So when I got home I got on the Hilton site and put in a date during the baseball season. During the summer, the rooms with a stadium or Arch view go for about $190.
Hilton is cleaning up on the view that Ballpark Village could have capitalized on. If they make Ballpark Village short, Hilton will continue to score big.
I think in the long run, the view off the ballpark is nice, but if there was truely a world class district right out the door they would do even better. Retaining the views with the use of short buildings would be a plus, but I am sure they would much prefer an awesome neighbor as opposed to a vacant lot which affords them the best views.
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What a joke. They pretty much just sealed the deal on public financing for stadiums in Missouri. Now that our beloved Cardinals have screwed everyone... never again! Can't really say its that surprising after three years of this. Slay and Co. better tear the Cardinals and Cordish a new one for this. PUBLICLY!
Conurbation wrote:What a joke. They pretty much just sealed the deal on public financing for stadiums in Missouri. Now that our beloved Cardinals have screwed everyone... never again! Can't really say its that surprising after three years of this. Slay and Co. better tear the Cardinals and Cordish a new one for this. PUBLICLY!
You would have thought that bridge got burned back with the Ed Jones Dome. But that didn't stop hundreds of millions of dollars getting thrown at almost complete renovations to Kaufmann and Arrowhead in Kansas City.
Plus it's not like we got completely hosed on Busch III. How much public money went into that place?Yeah some of the bonds got backed: but I thought the "free" public money "only' amounted to $50 million or so?
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Conurbation wrote:What a joke. They pretty much just sealed the deal on public financing for stadiums in Missouri. Now that our beloved Cardinals have screwed everyone... never again! Can't really say its that surprising after three years of this. Slay and Co. better tear the Cardinals and Cordish a new one for this. PUBLICLY!
I don't get it - this isn't exactly news at all. We have been kept up-to-date regarding the bonds for the project, we've known for a long time that there wouldn't be anything under construction before the All-Star game. And we did get Busch II relatively cheap.
Fine idea for a temporary move. To make sure it is temporary, the City should extract a condition out of the Cards. If Phase I is not under construction by 2011, then ownership of the lands for the Ballpark Village transfers to the City of St. Louis, which can then move forward with its own development plans for the site.
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So I, as a taxpayer, have to PAY to use a SOFTBALL field? Uhh, how about I just swing down to Forest Park and play for free?
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I'm kind of sick of the righteous "taxpayer" meme. Things cost money. You pay to have a street to drive on, you pay for water and heat. In fact you pay for Forest Park. Feel free to play softball wherever you like.
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can somebody please explain to me WHY parking is so f'ing important? we have the metrolink system. we have the metro bus system. why can't people use that to get RIGHT TO THE BALLPARK instead of clogging downtown fighting over the same parking spots, and encouraging people to make decisions like this, to create yet another parking lot.
Grover wrote:Conurbation wrote:What a joke. They pretty much just sealed the deal on public financing for stadiums in Missouri. Now that our beloved Cardinals have screwed everyone... never again! Can't really say its that surprising after three years of this. Slay and Co. better tear the Cardinals and Cordish a new one for this. PUBLICLY!
I don't get it - this isn't exactly news at all. We have been kept up-to-date regarding the bonds for the project, we've known for a long time that there wouldn't be anything under construction before the All-Star game. And we did get Busch II relatively cheap.
I think you meant Busch III, but you're right. It's not like this is
-the $500 million Target Field being built with almost entirely public money in Minnesota.
-the billions of dollars being dropped on the new Yankee Stadium and Citi Fields in New York.
-(like I said before) the $850 million dollars being dumped across the state into Kaufmann and Arrowhead.
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I think the whole "taxpayer" line is overused a lot too, but this is different. Even if they only got $1 from the City, the fact is that the Cardinals made an agreement that constructing Ballpark Village was a condition of receiving public funding.
I understand that the market changed soon after the plan was agreed too, but throughout this process, they have proven that they are stalling. If they didn't take any public money, I would be disappointed by this, but not mad. I am mad because they don't seem to care that they aren't living up the their end of the bargain. That the Cardinals ownership seems to increasingly demonstrating diminished integrity. Both off the field and on (cheaping out on second a baseman).
I understand that the market changed soon after the plan was agreed too, but throughout this process, they have proven that they are stalling. If they didn't take any public money, I would be disappointed by this, but not mad. I am mad because they don't seem to care that they aren't living up the their end of the bargain. That the Cardinals ownership seems to increasingly demonstrating diminished integrity. Both off the field and on (cheaping out on second a baseman).
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Conurbation wrote:That the Cardinals ownership seems to increasingly demonstrating diminished integrity. Both off the field and on (cheaping out on second a baseman).
I think we can all agree on that!!
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I think Maida just found her #1 issue to strip Southwest City votes from Slay.
Is there still a clause that they have to develop $50 million worth of development on the site by I believe 2012 or face penalties from the city of St. Louis?
This is so annoying. If the freaking Cardinals owners were willing to just sell plots of land, then multiple developers could come in and develop the parcels. There is obviously substantial demand for Class A Office space, condo/apartments, retail, and hotel. They would still probably make a substantial amount of money off of it.
C'mon Slay - do something that really makes me want you re-elected!
This is so annoying. If the freaking Cardinals owners were willing to just sell plots of land, then multiple developers could come in and develop the parcels. There is obviously substantial demand for Class A Office space, condo/apartments, retail, and hotel. They would still probably make a substantial amount of money off of it.
C'mon Slay - do something that really makes me want you re-elected!
They may not have taken any public money, but by not building Ballpark Village, they are depriving the city of St. Louis of much needed tax revenue.Conurbation wrote:I think the whole "taxpayer" line is overused a lot too, but this is different. Even if they only got $1 from the City, the fact is that the Cardinals made an agreement that constructing Ballpark Village was a condition of receiving public funding.
I understand that the market changed soon after the plan was agreed too, but throughout this process, they have proven that they are stalling. If they didn't take any public money, I would be disappointed by this, but not mad. I am mad because they don't seem to care that they aren't living up the their end of the bargain. That the Cardinals ownership seems to increasingly demonstrating diminished integrity. Both off the field and on (cheaping out on second a baseman).
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Play ball!!! Let's play two!
I'm excited about this!
I'm excited about this!