urbanSTL

brody wrote:^ I agree with some of the people on that forum. It feels like a mall, and I think it is because they attempted to build an entire district all at once. And is there any residential? I don't see any.

Totally agree. Also I'm not a fan of the chain-appeal this development has. Reminds me of downtown Indy - almost all chains and no local flavor. I wish KC the best with this development, however without a residential component my guess is that this development grows flat in 5-10 years. Most of those pics were during events and do not represent the amount of people that are there regularly.



So can Cordish and STL do it better with Ballpark Village? We've pulled in and catered to suburbanites before - look at Union Station and STL Centre. Unfortunately there was and still is no significant local residential population in and around those developments to support them. If Ballpark Village is to remain a success, it MUST have residential included eventually. Suburbanites will eventually realize they can go to Ted's Montana Grill in their own suburb as opposed to drive downtown to it.



While chain restaurants and shops are inevitable in Ballpark Village, let's hope Cordish at least brings original or more "upscale" chains to the area. Sadly, I think P.F. Changs and Cheesecake Factory would go well. Other chains such as "The Yard House", "Weber Grill", etc... would fit nice as they are not yet located in the region.

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/buildi ... e-project/



3 years to sell the bonds. I guess that means will start construction in 2012. Even though Dimwitt and Corshit said they could sell them quickly and have construction by this summer.

Would Ballpark Village offices be a home run?

Brokers say project is needed despite high vacancy rates downtown



As plans to build Ballpark Village — and add a minimum of 325,000 square feet of office space in downtown St. Louis — move forward, the downtown submarket continues to have the largest amount of vacant office space in the region by a long shot.



The Class A vacancy rate downtown hit 21.2 percent last year, up from 17.5 percent at the end of 2007, according to a recent report compiled by Colliers Turley Martin Tucker (CTMT). In comparison, Clayton and West County have rates below 6.5 percent, and St. Charles County’s rate is 10.3 percent.



One City Centre at 515 N. Sixth St. alone has 290,000 square feet of contiguous space, the CTMT report shows. There are four other Class A buildings downtown that can accommodate a tenant seeking 100,000 square feet of contiguous space. In Clayton, the largest contiguous space currently is 25,000 square feet, available in each of three buildings.



Nevertheless, area brokers say the downtown market could use new product, assuming it isn’t purely a spec project and has some tenant commitments.



http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... ocus3.html

^ I still think a development like this is possible. Of course, we'd have to wait for the economy to get back on track, and no one knows how long that may take. I still think the best thing for St. Louis is for the city to acquire this land from the Cardinals, build the necessary infrastructure including the street grid, and develop the whole thing block by block. Plop in a Cardinals museum directly across from the NW entrance to the stadium and let everything else develop organically.



Granted, we've already waited a long time for anything here, and this strategy would ensure a longer wait. But wouldn't it be worth it at this point to retain and attract businesses, encourage residential development, and perhaps attract retail and restaurants that won't simply siphon business from existing adjacent establishments?



Mayor Slay and the City of St. Louis deserve credit for playing hardball with the Cardinals and Cordish by not guaranteeing revenue from the project as Kansas City did with the P & L District. Now that we've waited so long and expectations have been diminished so much (from those renderings above to a cookie-cutter bar mall), I wish we could just take things one step further and ensure the best and highest use of this prime real estate.

I can't see why the state can't move up its meeting. A lot talk about stimulus. This should be a no brainer. All the State has to do is move up their meeting. Heck Stifel reported an increase in profit and is one of the stronger investment brokerages around. Their tenant committment should make the bond doable.

At least put a Denny's in there or something

Breakfast at Denny's in BPV would be oddly fitting.

Gone Corporate wrote:So long as the US banking system doesn't go into default, I do see a high-rise condo tower going up. (please note the caveat)

I, for one, would pay out the nose for a condo looking into the stadium. I'm talking 400k+ for a 2 bedroom, 1 bath place. Probably more.

JMStokes wrote:I, for one, would pay out the nose for a condo looking into the stadium. I'm talking 400k+ for a 2 bedroom, 1 bath place. Probably more.

And you're hardly alone, which is why I didn't get the reticence of all parties involved to build a condo tower before the economic meltdown brought large-scale residential and commercial projects to a screeching halt. I know of plenty of people, some with the means and others that are apparently willing to put their children down as collateral (okay, not really, but you get my point), that would love to live in a condo overlooking Busch Stadium.



Even when the markets improve, I simply don't trust Cordish or the Cardinals to take advantage of this opportunity, not when they've scaled back the project so many times and failed to deal with the city and its taxpayers in good faith.

there are at least 2 other empty lots in which high-rise residential/mixed use towers could still be located. So after Cordish and the Birds F this one up, another developer could still step up.

Another Cordish story out of the Kansas City Star. I feel for KC, betting on +500,000 square feet of retail space for 77% of sales tax revenue to back bonds won't be good for the foreseeable future.



http://www.kansascity.com/637/story/1050137.html

Realistically speaking, I do not believe there is any sort of chance the cardinals will do justice to this property if they are given 100 years to develop it. This has gone on for a bit too long. Maybe someone can tell Slay to "insert comment for finding a little courage" and start putting a little pressure on the cardinals to divide the land into parcels and sell it. Seems to me like the mayors of (and this has never been done on this forum before) Chicago and New York tend to get things accomplished for the better good of the city, whereas ours tend to wield a pathetically small amount of influence on matters such as these. Then again, we can’t compare right? (I'm beginning to wonder at which point this line of thinking has to stop...)

KCP&L has never been marketed as more than an entertainment district - restaurants, pubs, bowling, DJs on Friday and Saturday night etc. It is no surprise that this development outside my office window 1) is packed at lunch time, weekends and during events; 2) is not packed any other times; 3) has very little retail.



Few bright spots: they just got a grocery store - most seemed to be waiting for this to open up. Jos. A. Bank men's suits opened up on their heels. But it is far from replacing or even completing with the existing urban shopping district plaza. Other establishments are going to open soon, but not near enough to generate the extra sales tax they wanted, IMO.



Other news is that Cordish is kind of bullying around their tenants - a BBQ chain closed and started remodeling to become a Chicago Style Pizzeria, but Cordish forced them to revert back... also KC City Council is forcing them to revoke the dress code in the distinct. Hopefully they are a little more business friendly when in STL.



Even at lunch time with people there - it feels so institutional. Without the people living there - adding their own personal touches like plants in the windows, it feels like a large version of Boulevard (Richmond Heights - not the brewery here). They proposed residential and I hope they do it... but they seem to use the economy as an excuse to not build anything but more restaurants. Looks like they will sneak in to STL doing the same - without the residential component - very sad. STL's version should market itself more on the "Village" part of the name as opposed to the "Ballpark" - but its a lot easier to build "West County Mall - East" than a neighborhood from scratch and my experience here is that Cordish takes the easy (most profitable short-term) way out as opposed to what people on this forum would say is the correct way.

newstl2020 wrote:Realistically speaking, I do not believe there is any sort of chance the cardinals will do justice to this property if they are given 100 years to develop it. This has gone on for a bit too long. Maybe someone can tell Slay to "insert comment for finding a little courage" and start putting a little pressure on the cardinals to divide the land into parcels and sell it. Seems to me like the mayors of (and this has never been done on this forum before) Chicago and New York tend to get things accomplished for the better good of the city, whereas ours tend to wield a pathetically small amount of influence on matters such as these. Then again, we can’t compare right? (I'm beginning to wonder at which point this line of thinking has to stop...)

I agree. Mayor Slay and others in city government deserve much credit for standing their ground on their refusal to guarantee the bonds for the development. OTOH, I'm tired of the delays, I'm disappointed in the scaled-back plans we've seen, and I have absolutely NO faith in the Cardinals and Cordish to make this a project of which St. Louis can be proud. It's time for our city's leaders to make one more stand and demand that the Cardinals sell the land. Ideally the land could be sold to the city so it could be subdivided, infrastructure could be built, and then the individual parcels could be sold to developers. Clearly Kansas City didn't get the most bang for its buck. While I'm glad the city isn't on the hook for bonds for Ballpark Village, I'm just ready for them to take that fight one step further so the best and highest use of this parcel can be realized once the economy rebounds.

I'm still confident that we will still see two things happen this spring. First, the state will approve the tax credit deal in March and the construction trailers will be on site April/May. This is the only way BPV can meet any obligation to Stifel Nichols for premium office space by 2010 (In my wishful thinking mode I was hoping a few more failed small or medium size brokerage firms just might be picked up Stifel. They they would need additional office space and thus more floors!!)



What amazed about the article concerning sales tax on retail space is that KC learned absolutely nothing from St. Louis. We have the failed One Center mall in the heart of downtown. The struggling Union Station will be saved by Marriot, hopefully and fortunately. considering that, BPV will have a much better mix of overall space. Also, we will see highrise condo's in time as Gone Corporate expressed earlier. The views are too desireable.



Gone Corporate, the only thing that makes me nervous is the three years allowed to sell bonds in this climate. I'm betting on Stifel Nichols to make this happen a lot quicker considering the office space they desire. I hate to see someone who has never been in St. Louis make a pitch to someone who has never been in St. Louis.

Potential delay's on the bond sale. I guess we will just have to wait and see. Although 80% of the office space is in various stages of pre-leasing, so that is good. I would think it is a strong enough project to be able to seel bonds later in the Spring/Summer.

03.12.2009 4:05 pm

More Ballpark Village delay possible

By Tim Bryant

St. Louis Post-Dispatch



Continuing market uncertainty means more delay is possible in selling bonds to help finance the start of construction of Ballpark Village next to Busch Stadium downtown.



Bill DeWitt III, president of the St. Louis Cardinals, said today he hopes the bonds could be sold soon after Ballpark Village development plans get final state approval. DeWitt said he is “cautiously optimistic” that approval will be done by late April. But whether tax-increment financing bonds can be sold shortly afterward will depend on the market, he said.



“We’ll be ready in terms of the developers’ side of things to get started,” DeWitt said. “But we can’t say if the market will be there then.”

Read More

If I could take the reigns on this thing for a day, my first move would be getting the ball rolling on a sales center. I'm talking about a 5000 sqft+ fully interactive sales multimedia center with models/renderings/promotional materials/LCD screens etc etc etc. A full on attack at selling this thing while some BIG money is in town. What more could you ask for than having an All star game at your doorstep? If they want to market this as a first rate world class development WHY AREN'T THEY MARKETING IT? Where the heck is the website? Adds in the print? Signs? The project is WEAK. The Cardinals are WEAK. Cordish is WEAK.



This is supposedly a $650 million project. Why aren't they acting like it?

^ I could not agree more.