Ballpark Village Towers and Mixed Use Project

soulardd · PostMay 01, 2006#4012006-05-01T17:44+00:00

^^What

That is the goal of a successful urban community! I'd love to live within walking distance of a nice bookstore, bars, and restaurants. Add to that 1200+ neighbors to enjoy it with and I'd say it's a bullseye. Why does the inclusion of a Borders discourage the other things you mention in your last paragraph? It's just adds diversity and a draw for the time when baseball isn't being played(which is the majority of the time anyway).

jcity · PostMay 02, 2006#4022006-05-02T01:59+00:00

From hearing Bill DeWitt III talk about this project, he is a scholar and actually much more impressive than I would have expected. I believe he studied urban development/design at Stanford? (anyone else know?) He is not going to make this the typical cheeseball tourist attraction (cordish in baltimore). but rather, a real neighborhood. obviously, we'll see what happens, but it seemed that he was hellbent on not recreating the Landing or some type of Disneyfied dump that no one in here would go to, but rather a serious urban neighborhood. A mix of some national chains as well as some local businesses would be a good mix. Downtown does have a TGI Fridays already. Never been to one.

blzhrpmd2 · PostMay 02, 2006#4032006-05-02T15:38+00:00

What I posted was a poor representation I what I was thinking. You are correct....all those amenities are a boon for residents and should contribute a nice neighborhood. I guess I was trying to convey concern that the village would not have any character that made it "St Louis." thats all. If the retailers mentioned are in other locales throughout the country, and some are apparent tourist traps (BAL) what keeps this from becoming the same thing?

jeff · PostMay 02, 2006#4042006-05-02T19:23+00:00

I think I know what you're saying blz, and I agree with you. This should definitely be a 24/7 neighborhood first and foremost. A strictly touristy baseball area would be a dead zone most of the year and St. Louis doesn't get many tourists anyway.

I have confidence that they will integrate unique tourist attractions and retail into a neighborhood designed to support the 1200 residents.

soulardd · PostMay 02, 2006#4052006-05-02T20:44+00:00

I guess I've taken for granted the fact that it will become a solid neighborhood. I'd think the only way it couldn't be would be for speculators to buy all of the units in hopes of flipping them. Otherwise, I think it'll be a greatly successful neighborhood. Hopefully the retail/restaurants/etc. add life and vibrancy to the area for the times baseball isn't played rather than create a circus like tourist atmosphere during baseball season and a dead spot at off times. I don't see a borders as being touristy, I think it'll be a solid draw of residents all around downtown, soulard, etc. The same with the bars and restaurants.

gary kreie · PostMay 03, 2006#4062006-05-03T04:30+00:00

Cordish needs to make sure they build something unique that will make people drive past The Boulevard, and go Downtown.

St. Louis Center was a big success when it opened. But then the Galleria responded by building something just as good, and then nobody could think of a reason to drive past Galleria to go St. Louis Center anymore.

If Ballpark Village is merely as good as The Boulevard in Clayton, it will fail. They need unique places that are Only at Ballpark Village. If they can have the ONLY ESPN Zone in town, and if the Bottle District can have the only Cabo in town, that's a good start. And if they can have MORE of these places than The Boulevard (6 square blocks vs. 2 for The Boulevard) then I think they can get people to drive on past The Boulevard and go to BP Village 365 days a year.

PostMay 03, 2006#4072006-05-03T04:38+00:00

Santana Row

Tonight I am in San Jose on business, and we went to Santa Row for dinner. We ate Indian food outside. I don't know the details here, but it looks a lot like what I expect Ballpark Village might be. Except no towers. It has shopping (Crate and Barrel, etc.), Lots of restaruants, a hotel, cinema -- all on about 6 or 8 square blocks. The buildings all look like classic styling, as if they were old, but are all DryVit -- so they are in fact alll new. A parking garage is in the center of it all, hidden back where the services are. The buildings are all about 5 stories, with residential on all the upper stories, it appears. The restaurants are packed, and it is very lively. There are wine kiosks, a concierge kiosk, and lighted directories.

The only problem is -- it is not in downtown San Jose. It probably is drawing lots of business and diners away from downtown, although downtown is not totally dead in the evening anyway. But Santana Row is a few miles away. But the lively street dining, shopping, and residential is the closest thing I've see to what Ballpark Village could be.

conurbation · PostMay 09, 2006#4082006-05-09T00:06+00:00

I know this has been mentioned on the forum before (maybe in this thread), but I think it would be amazing if Anheuser Busch opened a ESPN Zone "type" facility in the Village. That could be of interest to tourists and locals alike. Busch can do no wrong in this town. This would be a slam dunk for them. Play off the history with the Cardinals and maybe even come up with some specialty brew offered only at that facility. Probably a pipe dream, by hey, who knows.

blzhrpmd2 · PostMay 09, 2006#4092006-05-09T01:15+00:00

^ I like it. I have pictured another electric AB logo with the flying eagle in a prominent spot in the village visible from the stadium. It could fly at appropriate times in the game and help make the village even more a part of the stadium. Your idea could make that a reality and add the St Louis flair that some are hoping permeates the village. Either way, probably a corollary to the pipedream, but AB's presence would be cool.

tbspqr · PostMay 10, 2006#4102006-05-10T00:13+00:00

Blzhrpmd2 wrote:...Either way, probably a corollary to the pipedream...

Its a pipedream that AB have a direct presence in the BV, but at the same making the village part of the stadium, making it a place where you can feel like your participating even when not at the game - I pray thats not a pipedream but more an attainable goal that is being shot for with BV. What good is a "ballpark village" if its not directly part of the ball park when the ball park is in use <during> and what good is an urban village if its not vibrant all year to both tourists and locals alike?

blzhrpmd2 · PostMay 10, 2006#4112006-05-10T02:37+00:00

Totally agree. Well said.

debaliviere · PostMay 15, 2006#4122006-05-15T13:39+00:00

Article on Bottle District/Ballpark Village from the Business Journal:

Digging Downtown

loftlover · PostMay 24, 2006#4132006-05-24T19:08+00:00

Don't miss the 6 o'clock news on Fox tonight!

http://www.urbanreviewstl.com/archives/000672.php

PostMay 24, 2006#4142006-05-24T23:00+00:00

If you missed it, the piece was all about the stand off between the city and Cordish (and the Cards) over financing and debt guarantees. The city is saying no way, Cordish is playing hardball. In any case, the construction start has been delayed until things are resolved.

jcity · PostMay 25, 2006#4152006-05-25T03:00+00:00

So, the Bottle District got funding but the Ballpark Village did not?

st. louis loyalist · PostMay 25, 2006#4162006-05-25T03:08+00:00

My question is, is the city renigging on it's part in helping BPV get off the ground? I sincerely hope that this 'problem' is resolved expeditiously, so the project can go forward. Do other cities have this kind of problem(s) when it comes to construction of major projects like the BVP? It's very frustrating to see this happen.

So, I have the same question as JCity, does this mean that the Bottle District received funding, but not BPV?

threeonefour · PostMay 25, 2006#4172006-05-25T04:11+00:00

loftlover wrote:If you missed it, the piece was all about the stand off between the city and Cordish (and the Cards) over financing and debt guarantees. The city is saying no way, Cordish is playing hardball. In any case, the construction start has been delayed until things are resolved.

I'm not sure now is the time for the city to start playing hardball. Although I'm confident that there's enough demand for this project to be built without further subsidies, you cannot blame the Cardinals and Cordish for asking when the city gives money hand over fist to others. Bryan Cave received money from the city...just to stay put.

Maybe I'm cynical, but I fear that the Cardinals and Cordish may use this as an excuse to build a scaled-down version of Ballpark Village. It's in their best interest to pursue the best and highest use of the land, so I suppose I'm worrying about nothing. And I realize we have to stop subsidizing new development at some point, I'm just not convinced that this is the time and place to do so.

In the meantime, I'm pissed simply because I wanted to see construction activity at Ballpark Village as soon as possible.

absolut355 · PostMay 25, 2006#4182006-05-25T07:52+00:00

I may be thinking too much in the future, but didn't Bud Selig say "...St. Louis can have the All Star Game anytime it wants" yet probably contingent that BPV gets built by 2009? Not that All Star games make cities, etc., but damn it'd be nice to have to show off the new Busch and BPV!

Why the hell would the city of STL NOT try to get BPV built asap?? If its a scaled down version as ThreeOne suggests, I'll be pissed too! Every time I'm at a Cards game, I'm secretly hoping for a tower crane to mysteriously appear, even though that won't happen for awhile...I want BPV to begin construction at the end of this year at the latest, but will it happen?

thewayofthearch · PostMay 25, 2006#4192006-05-25T14:31+00:00

Don't forget the Cardinals are contractually obligated to develop BPV and will suffer large penalties if they don't. If they develop without subsidies-city wins...if they don't city gets paid and I would imagine that the cards realixe the value of the land is too great to sell and profit potential extremely high and develop it anyway. The city has little incentive to offer incentives in this case other than the obvious-we need to get this thing built ASAP so the nation can see it.

threeonefour · PostMay 25, 2006#4202006-05-25T15:25+00:00

TheWayoftheArch wrote:The city has little incentive to offer incentives in this case other than the obvious-we need to get this thing built ASAP so the nation can see it.

At least for me, that's a compelling reason for at least SOME incentives.

I still maintain the city's picked the wrong place and time to go cold turkey on incentives. I don't think downtown's renaissance depends on Ballpark Village or the stadium by any means, but I do think its completion is a crucial piece of the puzzle for that part of downtown.

thewayofthearch · PostMay 25, 2006#4212006-05-25T15:44+00:00

I don't think anyone will dispute that last part.

As for incentives on BPV-should have gotten those in the development contract...Once you commit on paper as the cardinals have done, you really diminsh the leverage you have on breaks, IMO.

threeonefour · PostMay 25, 2006#4222006-05-25T18:01+00:00

TheWayoftheArch wrote:I don't think anyone will dispute that last part.

As for incentives on BPV-should have gotten those in the development contract...Once you commit on paper as the cardinals have done, you really diminsh the leverage you have on breaks, IMO.

No pun intended, but that shows the Cardinals didn't have all their bases covered after all. For once the city does have some leverage- I just hope this doesn't result in delays and a scaled-down project.

I don't want to sidetrack this discussion, but like JCity and STL Loyalist, I'd be really interested to know whether the city is offering incentives to Bottle District developers. I am rather skeptical about that development for a variety of reasons.

urban elitist · PostMay 25, 2006#4232006-05-25T18:15+00:00

ThreeOneFour wrote:I don't want to sidetrack this discussion, but like JCity and STL Loyalist, I'd be really interested to know whether the city is offering incentives to Bottle District developers. I am rather skeptical about that development for a variety of reasons.

I think that they were already awarded about $51mil in TIFs a few years back.

MattnSTL · PostMay 25, 2006#4242006-05-25T21:44+00:00

I'm not sure if they are saying no to incentives completely. What I got from Charles Jaco's report this morning, the city will not garuntee any TIF notes like they did for St. Louis Marketplace, or use something like Communitty Development Block Grants like they did for the Renaissance Grand. I don't think they said they won't offer a TIF completely, just that the developer has to garuntee the TIF if the sales tax revenue is not there to pay off the bonds, not the city itself.

I could be wrong though.

framer · PostMay 26, 2006#4252006-05-26T01:09+00:00

Relax, people. What's going on here is called "negotiations". Its part of every business deal. The Village will get built, and it will be spectacular.

Ballpark Village Towers and Mixed Use Project

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