Ballpark Village Towers and Mixed Use Project

moorlander · PostDec 28, 2007#27762007-12-28T20:48+00:00

newstl2020 wrote:
It's tough to compare this project to a single-building.

Not really...Museum Plaza in Louisville is a ~470 million dollar building, which received ~130 million in TIF and Bond sales to support the actual realization of that project. The final component, 40 million in bonds for structural improvements to the area around the site, got pulled together and issed within a period of 2 months. That makes this project seem like a bit of a joke in comparisson.

Like 314 said, I'm not worried the project isn't going to happen, that would be a little paranoid. Centene will be there, and BPV will be built out. The project just has me concerned that our elected officials have been bordering on incompetent (it seems, I know it's much more difficult than it appears) on this one.

Be careful making such assumptions about this project. I really don't think you grasp the complexity of this.

A few things to keep in mind...

1. The Cardinals are a baseball team in the business of winning Championships, not developing 6 blocks of prime dt real estate. I think many at Cordish and the Cardinals are much more patient with this project than we'd all like them to. The longer they wait, the more construction costs will rise. Otherwise, I doubt delayting the process is costing cordish or the cardinals much.

2. Take a minute to consider all the variables in developing this project. The Cardinals, Cordish, and Centene are all working to secure financing from various city and state mediums as well as private funding. Anytime you have TIF, tax credits, bonds, etc involved in a project of this magnitued, there are many hurdles to cross.

MattnSTL · PostDec 29, 2007#27772007-12-29T03:59+00:00

^Having seen financing from very complex deals, I have no doubt that Centene threw a big wrench into the plans. Once you start getting into the legal stuff, everyone's lawyers want to make changes, and with every change, every other lawyer wants to make another change. It can go on for a long time. I've been saying this for a while, but we do just need to be patient. No sense in rushing in to something and messing up. As long as cranes are up by the All-Star break of 2009, I will be satisfied, as much as I want it now.

arch city · PostDec 29, 2007#27782007-12-29T10:16+00:00

Technically, the Centene move is a done deal. The CEO announced it himself. He's committed to moving downtown. The financing is not a done deal. And if financing falls through who knows what will happen. I am optimistic. As it has been stated, financing is complex when you have a project this big with several players. Also, I have never been under the impression that financing was a done deal. This process takes a while.

It is my hope that once this is done, financing and all, St. Louis will grow from this experience; and the next big project (with multiple players and financing complexities) won't take as long to materialize.

jcity · PostDec 30, 2007#27792007-12-30T07:43+00:00

i heard that it might not be a "done deal". I know Clayton is still trying to lure them back, as the ground they were originally interested in, is now available. I pray to GOD that the downtown move is a DONE DEAL though.. Is this just a bad rumor?

anniewarbucks · PostDec 30, 2007#27802007-12-30T16:25+00:00

I wonder if they will put up a web cam like they did for the Kansas City Power and Light district.

tbspqr · PostDec 30, 2007#27812007-12-30T18:32+00:00

^^

http://www.stlcc.edu/distance/media/roofcam.html

The webcam is not done by BPV or anyone associated with it... but its located right across the street... tab #6 is labeled "Ballpark Village" site...

MattnSTL · PostDec 30, 2007#27822007-12-30T23:01+00:00

That webcam also allows you to control it. Even has a zoom. Was great during the building of the ballpark.

afftonguy78 · PostDec 31, 2007#27832007-12-31T00:40+00:00

MattnSTL wrote:That webcam also allows you to control it. Even has a zoom. Was great during the building of the ballpark.

Also it will be great whenever they finally start on Ballpark Village. I really like how you can control it. I have looked at it alot.

arch city · PostDec 31, 2007#27842007-12-31T05:07+00:00

JCity wrote:i heard that it might not be a "done deal". I know Clayton is still trying to lure them back, as the ground they were originally interested in, is now available. I pray to GOD that the downtown move is a DONE DEAL though.. Is this just a bad rumor?

The fact the CEO, the man who basically started the firm, announced that he was moving Centene downtown from Clayton is enough confirmation for me that it is a done deal. Again, however, if financing falls through (and that's a big if), it could change the ball game once again. But I seriously doubt there are going to be any problems.

1. I would love to know your source.

2a. The Clayton people conceded and congratulated St. Louis City/region on snagging/maintaining the HQ's. While anything could be happening behind the scenes, I doubt that Clayton is trying to lure them back.

2b. Furthermore, unless the city's financing package falls through, Centene would look really bad if they made a decision to move back to Clayton. I doubt if Centene would want to look bad at this juncture.

3. Clayton really doesn't need the new Centene tower. The eminent domain properties now available won't be hard to redevelop. It's prime real estate.

4. Clayton will never give Centene or U.S. Equities the big financial package St. Louis City is proposing, which is why it is very likely BPV will be Centene's new home.

jivecitystl · PostJan 14, 2008#27852008-01-14T20:24+00:00

WHAT IS UP WITH BALLPARK VILLAGE ALREADY? Have we heard anything since the Centene announcement? As it stands now, there is not a chance in hell any part of this project will be open by the '09 playoffs as they had been touting. I'm beginning to have doubts about the solidity of this project. Any info?

shimmy · PostJan 14, 2008#27862008-01-14T23:41+00:00

JivecitySTL wrote:WHAT IS UP WITH BALLPARK VILLAGE ALREADY? Have we heard anything since the Centene announcement? As it stands now, there is not a chance in hell any part of this project will be open by the '09 playoffs as they had been touting. I'm beginning to have doubts about the solidity of this project. Any info?

All-Star Game. Even closer.

metzgda · PostJan 15, 2008#27872008-01-15T01:57+00:00

This is the latest news, as of the Business Journal a few weeks back. I wouldn't expect any big news until April or so...

DeBaliviere wrote:The Business Journal is reporting that the bond sale is expected to take place in April, with shovels in the ground shortly ahead of the sale. Centene and other changes in the scope of BPV caused everyone to go back to the drawing board, which is the cause of the delay.

jlblues · PostJan 16, 2008#27882008-01-16T23:23+00:00

Random dreams of what Ballpark Village could be like...but won't. If there are any architecture buffs out there

, these are mostly Bay Area projects and proposals from SocketSite.com

conurbation · PostJan 17, 2008#27892008-01-17T18:24+00:00

I'd give my left nut to see any of these buildings built in the Village or anywhere in this City for that matter. I keep hearing about the great culture of architecture we have in town, but why don't we ever see anything creative like this?

MattnSTL · PostJan 17, 2008#27902008-01-17T20:04+00:00

You can have the most cutting edge architect in the world working on a project, but none of that matters if the client isn't asking for anything more than you standard building.

brody · PostJan 17, 2008#27912008-01-17T21:24+00:00

I don't know about ballpark village. Maybe I'll want to take back my words 10 years from now, but it would seem to me that a development based around a baseball stadium is bound to fail...

Then again, in Saint Louis we need whatever we can get. And there sure are a lot of baseball fanatics here.

stlbaseball · PostJan 18, 2008#27922008-01-18T02:46+00:00

That may be one of the most ridiculous comments I've read on this forum over the last three years.

If you have visited many of the cities that have recently built baseball stadiums in urban areas before, I'd think you would find that many of these cities were revived once a new stadium was built.

I tend to believe that the new Busch Stadium and Ballpark Village will be major contributors to a downtown revival over the next six years.

ntbpo · PostJan 18, 2008#27932008-01-18T04:28+00:00

That may be one of the most ridiculous comments I've read on this forum over the last three years.

Agreed. Having a development like ballpark village makes perfect sense. 81 days out of the year you have 40,000 baseball fans attending games, why not offer them something retail and restaurants.

moorlander · PostJan 18, 2008#27942008-01-18T04:34+00:00

Even as a Cardinals fan who attends 10-20 of those 81 home games, I'm much more concerned with what BPV offers DT residents and tourist those other 284 days of the year.

brody · PostJan 18, 2008#27952008-01-18T04:35+00:00

Yeah, 81 days out of the year. But beyond that, is ballpark village any real destination? And how many people want to wake up every morning looking at busch stadium?

framer · PostJan 18, 2008#27962008-01-18T05:19+00:00

^Ballpark Village will also offer some terrific views of Downtown, the River, and The Arch.

wabash · PostJan 18, 2008#27972008-01-18T05:31+00:00

81 days of 40,000+ might not sustain an entire neighborhood or "village", but when you combine those 81 days (and hopefully lots of play-off days) with a 1,000 full-time Centene employees, a hotel, 200 condos, direct access to metorlink, and Cupples Station, all remaining dynamic year-round, a synergy might occur that does produce a vibrant and exciting place.

stlcardsblues1989 · PostJan 18, 2008#27982008-01-18T05:36+00:00

I think Ballpark Village will be great for the city. It's one piece of the puzzle to continuing to revive St. Louis.

jrathert · PostJan 18, 2008#27992008-01-18T16:32+00:00

Having been in Point 400, I can say the views of the stadium are actually pretty cool.

tge-atw · PostJan 18, 2008#28002008-01-18T16:48+00:00

Wait, what is ballpark village? What they really need to do is put something in that gaping hole that is sitting next to Busch Stadium. I heard that they were going to put a building or something there with a restaurant. I also heard that it was going to be the site of the new St. Louis Spaceport. Estimated completion date 4024. Somebody put some ***** grass seed on the site and take down the fence. At least we can play frisbee before the game.

Ballpark Village Towers and Mixed Use Project

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