urbanSTL

DeBaliviere wrote:^

Interesting. I thought that the 250 condos that jmedwick made reference to were part of Cordish's contractual obligation. This is getting confusing - I hope we get some concrete plans fairly soon.

...and I hope those plans include condos. DT does need some class A office space, but more people (with more $) living there is never a bad thing. I don't see how these would not be the most sought after units in the metro area.

SoulardD wrote:...and I hope those plans include condos. DT does need some class A office space, but more people (with more $) living there is never a bad thing. I don't see how these would not be the most sought after units in the metro area.

The good thing about the way the area is coming together is that we'll still have a substantial amount of residential units in the Cupples Station district and in Pointe 400 as well. There's also always the potential for new development in the vacant lot to the west of Pointe 400 - perfect for a mixed-use project. If phase one includes an office tower that could lure, say CENTENE, or would allow downtown to retain Armstrong Teasdale and/or Polsinelli Suelthaus & Walsh, with condos to be added later, that would be a win-win, IMO.

The condos are mentioned in todays article in the Post. Doesn't say they won't, doesn't say they will. I think its basically what they have been saying all along.



Ballpark Village moves closer to scoring state cash

By Matthew Franck and Jake Wagman

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

07/18/2007



JEFFERSON CITY — The Missouri Department of Economic Development recommended Tuesday that the state pitch in about $26.8 million for the development of Ballpark Village, fortifying hopes that the project adjacent to Busch Stadium can be finished by the time St. Louis hosts the Major League All-Star game in 2009.



That optimism comes despite Missouri officials recommending about $9 million less in state money than the city requested.



The Department of Economic Development recommended approving the financing to the state's Development Finance Board, which has final say on the deal. The board is likely to take up the matter next month, though many members gave the plan a warm reception after a presentation on Tuesday.



...



The team's vision for Ballpark Village calls for six blocks of stores, restaurants and entertainment on the grounds of what was the old Busch Stadium. Plans include a Cardinals Hall of Fame, office space and themed restaurants, like an ESPN Zone or Hard Rock Café.



Ballpark Village, however, may not include the 260 condominiums previously touted as part of the project. The Cardinals and Cordish have said they want to see how the market unfolds before committing to new residential construction.



Lt. Gov. Peter Kinder, who heads the finance board, appeared satisfied with those prospects.



"There's an expectation that this (project) will be sexy enough that people will want to have a condo in the middle of it," he said.



Continue Reading

It was and has been my understanding that the first phase of construction will now NOT contain any condos. The city agreed that Cordish doesn't have to build residential as part of the development (which I think is BS - the city should have put a minimum, say, 200 condos). The first phase will consist of underground parking, 300,000+ sq. ft. of retail, 100,000 sq.ft. of office. None of the 3 rendered towers will be built in Phase I, but everything else in the rendering (including the mid-rises) should.



This was done so that the development would be open for the All Star game. Now, from posts on here and in various news sources, it sounds as if there has been strong interest in office space within BPV. I could see high-rise office space getting built immediately following Phase I, and I can't imagine that they couldn't sell at least 1 30-40 story condo tower without issue. Particularly if the real estate market picks back up, I'm certain there will be residential past Phase I in this project. It's critical IMO.

^

And I would guess that if a large tenant were to commit to BPV, that 100,000 sf of office space would be expanded.

And I have no particular problem with large blocks of office space instead of condos, for the reasons already mentioned.

bonwich wrote:I haven't gone back and reviewed it, but I'm almost certain Channel 2's report last night said that condos were no longer included in the first phase.

that's what I've been hinting at for the last few weeks. Sorry I can't give up my source...

David Cordish refused to comment on the condos in the Fox 2 report, saying merely that they are confident they will meet the requirements of the contract.



http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages/New ... geId=3.2.1

With Pointe400, Cupples, Ballpark Lofts, The Arcade, St. Louis Centre, and Dillard's there are well over 1,000 new units with about 5-7 blocks of Ballpark Village/Busch Stadium. I don't think they need residential on site (at least in Phase 1) to make this project a success.

A few weeks ago I was talking with a representative from Orchard and he said that in the short turn they would not be pursuing any more projects downtown because of fears the market is becoming overbuilt. That is why their next building is in Clayton. I just hope some of the new buildings like Skyhouse, Roberts and City side get built. I believe new construction will attract a different clientele than what is currently available does.

southcitygent wrote:A few weeks ago I was talking with a representative from Orchard and he said that in the short turn they would not be pursuing any more projects downtown because of fears the market is becoming overbuilt. That is why their next building is in Clayton. I just hope some of the new buildings like Skyhouse, Roberts and City side get built. I believe new construction will attract a different clientele than what is currently available does.

I agree with both your concern and your comment on new construction attracting a different clientele. Especially for those clients that don't want a loft look, a condo in a new building would sell well. I think Skyhouse will do well and so could the Roberts building if they develop a good sales strategy, which is something they appear to need right now.

It seems smart to me to not overbuild the residential, as I think we will have a much greater chance of getting even more new (tall!) development if we allow the current market of condos and lofts to sell. That being said, a condo tower in BPV with views into the stadium would operate in a totally different fashion than the rest of the entire market in the STL area. That would be a first of its kind, and I think many people who would never consider living in downtown otherwise would jump at the chance to buy a condo at 500 ft. looking down into Busch stadium. It's just a totally seperate market, one which has yet to be tapped into in the region. Cordish would be foolish not to exploit this, if not now, eventually. Imo it would be an awful move not to capitalize on this, especially if they wait to build until after phase 1 (which looks to be the case) and many of the other condos/lofts in downtown sell and the vacancy rates drop dramatically.

newstl2020 wrote:It seems smart to me to not overbuild the residential, as I think we will have a much greater chance of getting even more new (tall!) development if we allow the current market of condos and lofts to sell. That being said, a condo tower in BPV with views into the stadium would operate in a totally different fashion than the rest of the entire market in the STL area. That would be a first of its kind, and I think many people who would never consider living in downtown otherwise would jump at the chance to buy a condo at 500 ft. looking down into Busch stadium. It's just a totally seperate market, one which has yet to be tapped into in the region. Cordish would be foolish not to exploit this, if not now, eventually. Imo it would be an awful move not to capitalize on this, especially if they wait to build until after phase 1 (which looks to be the case) and many of the other condos/lofts in downtown sell and the vacancy rates drop dramatically.

I think you're right. A condo overlooking the ballpark would fill very quickly, even in an otherwise saturated market. I really hope the condo tower is built.

jefferson wrote:

bonwich wrote:I haven't gone back and reviewed it, but I'm almost certain Channel 2's report last night said that condos were no longer included in the first phase.

I heard this on Ch. 5 as well, that the condos are officially out for phase I. I've checked their website but can't locate the report. It was the 6:00 news I believe.

Yes, the broadcasts I saw on Channels 2 & 5 reported that "Cordish has ruled out condos for Ballpark Village". They did not specify whether that was for Phase 1 or the entire project.

How do you feel about only 24 condos?

I heard a caller on Charlie Brennan this morning complaining that high rises in BPV will block the view of the Arch, the Courthouse, and..............the Equitable Building. He said that towers would be a shame and Brennan basically agreed with him by not countering.



:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

TGE-ATW wrote:I heard a caller on Charlie Brennan this morning complaining that high rises in BPV will block the view of the Arch, the Courthouse, and..............the Equitable Building. He said that towers would be a shame and Brennan basically agreed with him by not countering.

His glass is half empty or perhaps twice as big as it needs to be. Sounds like he would have the best view of the new high-rises from where he stands today.

http://www.stlballparkvillage.com is the official website for the curious. It just redirects to cordish's site right now.



Is that 24 condos something official? You were the one that new condos were out in the first place.

dustin wrote:His glass is half empty or perhaps twice as big as it needs to be.

Charlie's a nice guy and he means well, and I know I'm being harsh, but sometimes I think his head is half empty and twice as big as it needs to be.



The only place in downtown where I would even care if my view of the Gateway Arch is blocked (other than Kiener Plaza and the vista along Market Street) is inside Busch Stadium itself. From all the Cordish renderings I've seen, that won't be the case, at least not for most fans.



I remember the bleating from West Countians when they complained their view of the Gateway Arch from eastbound Highway 40 was being blocked by the Eagleton Courthouse when it was constructed in the mid 1990s.



I guess I should be happy that they cared so much about our most recognizable landmark, but what a ridiculous complaint that was!

TGE-ATW wrote:I heard a caller on Charlie Brennan this morning complaining that high rises in BPV will block the view of the Arch, the Courthouse, and..............the Equitable Building. He said that towers would be a shame and Brennan basically agreed with him by not countering.



:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

I heard that tooo... Some people get it and some people don't. As far as the 25 or so condos, I'm pretty sure it's just phase 1 but I can't say for sure at this moment.